@cmbreeze one way to solve is if “water polo statistician” is a trained/paid position like water polo officials/referees. and have 2 per game just like officials/referees. (one can dream right?). re: the +/- 6-8 formula… agree that needs to be revisited with examples you made.
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I saw someone who was like 10 for 40 on shooting with almost no assists and still has a very high +/-. That’s insane. I bet his teammates don’t feel like he is a massive net positive contributor when they are sprinting back to cover all the counter attacks his bad shots lead to.
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I watched @cmbreeze taking stats for his son’s team on a sheet of paper. He was recording data at twice the granularity of the 6-8 system, noting whether goals occurred at 6-on-6, 6-on-5, or via penalty, albeit only for one team. He shared an Excel template with me that aggregates this team and individual data over several seasons. Interestingly, they use a +/- scoring metric that is far more intuitive than the 6-8 methodology.
The primary issue isn’t just the 6-8 definitions, though I find their +/- system to be rudimentary, but rather the inconsistent data entry from untrained individuals. Better alternatives might include a ‘paper and pen’ approach (using screenshots or AI to digitize notes into Excel or 6-8) or, as I’ve suggested previously, a voice-based AI system for real-time input.
Furthermore, leveraging crowdsourced data from dedicated individuals like @cmbreeze, combined with the ability for ‘approved users’ to edit data post-game, would be a significant improvement. In practice, teams could hold admin accounts allowing them to manage their own data within the system.
The continuous adoption of the 6-8 system by major associations (USA Water Polo, MPSF, ACWPC, etc.) without rigorous quality assurance, followed by the promotion of that flawed data on social media, is a poor reflection on the sport.
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great feedback and analysis @cmbreeze! Seems like a voice-based AI system for real-time input would not be too difficult to develop. I also see assistant coaches keeping stats - what if the home team had to input their stats at end of game?
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