I agree sprints should be something, even if small. I believe it may have been something in the past, .1 or .2 or something. Don’t quote me on that. But it matters. Especially considering start of a qtr when other team has an exclusion or a golden goal scenario.
I think this is pretty close too. I need more data with unusual goalie activity to be sure.
I went through a game as a stat keeper and verified.
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Thank you Gibson and WPpops. I can’t believe that missed shots are not taken into consideration at all and I agree with most of the other recommendations here.
Objectively, winning 4 sprints means up to 2 minutes more attacking time than your opponent. If your offense can put up goals when they have possession, having 2 more minutes should be recognized if there’s a way to do it consistently within a stats-keeping system.
On my stat sheet I would normally apply the turnover to the player that made the bad pass to center and not apply this to the center unless the center clearly had an opportunity to finish and failed to do so (example would be if they tried to draw penalty shot by dropping the ball and no penalty was called, i do understand this could be a failure of the ref but sometimes the player could influence the refs call by some action and did not)
This example highlights the variability in both stat keeping and game referees. I think we have all been watching a game before where very knowledgeable folk are exasperated with the officials over a clear call not made.
Basically a possession that ends while there is still time on the shot clock and no shot taken should be assigned as a turnover to someone that made a mistake, unless an offensive foul is called.
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The notion that taking a bad shot is better for an individuals stats than trying to get the ball to the 2M late in the clock, that has multiple better potential outcomes, is impossible for me to accept.
That is fair. I think the question there is if the pass had a fair chance of resulting in something other than a turnover.
@BayPolo posted the weights a year ago however it may have evolved since then: 6-8 Game Desk/Statistics - #31 by BayPolo
Sure. It’s something you could definitely figure out by playing around with the apps. We debated for a while as to whether to make the values configurable, but settled on the idea that the consistent benchmarking was more important than the “number”. Because everyone is scored the same, there’s standardization and consistency across the entire collection of athletes and games for years!
I’ve used it with my kids club and school teams for years. The discussions the kids have about it are super important. Parents don’t give a crap. I’ve never had a parent ask about the stats of their kid. For the athletes it’s the realization that a strong defensive game or a playmaker can be a huge positive for the team.
The values are:
Goals +1
Exclusions -.7
Assists +.9
Steals +.7
Offensive -.9
Turnover -.9
EarnedEjectjon +.9
Blocks +.8
Saves +.8Stating a water polo game is tough. I’ve done several hundred and still often use a spotter!
6-8’s app strength is that the stats flow to a larger database and to the individual player profiles in their mobile app. Smart coaches understand the stats tell the story about what is happening in the game and understand how to spot trends and use the data to educate the athletes about the game. Weaker coaches view it as a threat because they are making gut decisions and not objectively observing performance.
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saw that 6-8 posted the “TOP 10 ranked boys attackers (16U & 18U)” on their Instagram account… anyone think it’s right? 
This was a new low… even for 6-8.
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I think that was based on the tested 6-8 challenge metrics at one of their events and not on games…
The caption offered upcoming opportunities to get tested and join in the fun! 
My son, and most of the players, have never attended any of the 6-8 challenges, yet they still have game stats listed, just not the “athleticism” metrics.
They’ve launched a new site that lists players and allows filtering by different attributes: https://www.6-8dashboard.com.
It could have been somewhat useful for recruiting if the data were apples-to-apples, or even close to a complete dataset. However, they don’t list the games themselves and, just as importantly, they don’t appear to weight the stats based on level of competition or event type, at least not in any transparent way.
At the 18U level, they only have data for about 130 players, which is obviously very limited. Some top recruits are even given a “power score” that, according to 6-8, suggests they wouldn’t be able to play college at the club level 
That said, I give them credit that they try to innovate.
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How to ruin youth water polo:
Step 1: figure out how the stats work (which appears to be done here)
Step 2: find ways to game the system and stat pad.
Step 3: like the NBA, get mad at your teammate for passing you a ‘grenade’ because you had to take a bad shot as the shot clock expired. Or just don’t take it. Also don’t shoot half court shots with an expiring clock (take note goalies, you just lost .8 points)
Step 4: enable lazy coaches to make recruiting decisions based on the 6-8 score.
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I think people are getting upset over nothing here instead of figuring out how to use the best of very few stat keeping systems. 6-8 isn’t calling anyone the best 18u or 16u in that post at all. They picked a single metric and showed a leader board. Ofcourse you can choose a different stat and it changes. And if your kid has not been keeping stats in the program, ofcourse that are not there. Not sure why so much angst towards a program that is actually doing something instead of what we’ve always done in this area, nothing of real substance. Coaches understand how to use it or not use it. Nobody is gaming it for recruitment nor are coaches using it in isolation for recruiting. We need to give everyone far more credit than that. Just because Johnny Doe is not listed it will be okay. If Johnny Doe is better than kids listed it will be known. It is okay to have and grow a system.
To imply Tony and 6-8 are contributing to harming youth water polo is ludicrous.
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No hate to 6-8 at all. As I’ve said before, I’m a big fan of any company that is actually investing time and money into building a stats platform for water polo. The platform itself seems solid and fairly user-friendly, and it has the potential to be amazing IF accurate data is consistently inputted.
That said, when USA Water Polo and 6-8 do a collaborative Instagram post showing stats from scrimmages at the ODP Regional Championship, it’s naturally going to invite scrutiny and that’s how this thread got started…lol
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That is more directed to the commentary about how to ruin youth water polo.
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If anyone from 6–8 is reading this thread, publishing player rankings in public media (e.g., Instagram) or on your platform (https://www.6-8dashboard.com) significantly detracts from your credibility when the individuals representing you at national, high-level tournaments are doing a poor job collecting basic statistics.
To illustrate through arguably one of the top matches NYAC NL vs USA B NL:
• 25 exclusions were recorded, yet only 1 exclusion drawn is listed. How is that possible? What relevant data are you collecting for centers?
• 32 goals scored, but only 26 goals allowed?
These are just a small sample of recurring inconsistencies. It may be acceptable to have incomplete statistics, but if that is the case, they should not be published or used to rank players.
A few suggestions:
- Simple post-game quality control
- The name of the individual collecting the stat should be attached to the stat sheet for every game. This will create a sense of ownership and accountability, and also will enable you to track who does a good job
- Add users’ ability to comment and ranked the quality of the stat for each game
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agree, i watched a few turnovers, bad passes led to a steal and the person trying to receive the ball was issued the turnover not the pass that skipped too far, (blame that on the Mikasa!)
If they are going to post stats they should rewatch the game and take stats when they can pause and rewind to see who earned the exclusion, who deserves the turnover and so on.
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They seemed to be focused on goals, shots, and exclusions.