2025 Boys ODP Teams

High School - Boys
122

DivGradCurl,

Most players do not start at 5-6, and, in any case, I do not remember too many high IQ 10U water polo players in 2021. After all, they were just very small 8-10 year old kids :slight_smile:

123

I didn’t say train. I said play (and really just sit) on national age group teams. I’m of the opinion that you don’t put a freshman on varsity unless you expect that player to be a heavy contributor. If you don’t, having them sit on varsity may actually hinder their development and hurt your team now. That’s a double negative outcome. Our age group national teams don’t do a heck of a lot of training together as compared to the amount of tournament play they get. I like 5 hours of practice to 1 hour of game play. But that’s just me.

124

Gibson,

PSW Blue will not win medals at ODP Championship. And yes, young talented kids often play in older groups. Whatever :slight_smile:

125

I’m definitely not talking about zone teams. I am talking about our national teams.PSW will not be beating Spain. No offense to them. Moving a kid up to a higher zone team to see how he/she does at the ODP Championships could really help test them out. Then, put them on the correct age group national team where they can best contribute.

126

I answered my own question. Here are the players by birthyear at last year’s 16U world Championships in Malta

Country 2008 2009 2010 Grand Total
AUS 15 15
BRA 9 3 1 13
BUL 8 7 15
CAN 12 3 15
CHN 14 1 15
CRO 12 3 15
CZE 13 2 15
EGY 15 15
ESP 11 3 14
GEO 10 4 1 15
GER 11 4 15
GRE 15 15
HUN 14 1 15
ISR 9 6 15
ITA 8 7 15
KAZ 15 15
MEX 6 7 1 14
MLT 13 1 1 15
MNE 9 5 1 15
NED 11 4 15
NZL 15 15
PER 5 7 3 15
POL 12 3 15
ROU 12 2 14
RSA 14 1 15
SGP 7 6 13
SLO 5 6 4 15
SRB 11 3 1 15
TUR 11 4 15
UKR 11 2 13
USA 9 3 2 14
ZIM 13 2 15
2 Likes
127

May be the exception that proves the rule, but I would put Drake Hamilton in that group. If memory serves, Drake had something like 7 or 8 earned exclusions against 680 in the 2021 10u championship game.

Very smart player then. Very smart player now. Sorry for the tangent. Carry on.

2 Likes
128

Data, Data, Data. To address one of the other discussions on this wide ranging thread.

Country 2008-Q1 2008-Q2 2008-Q3 2008-Q4 2009-Q1 2009-Q2 2009-Q3 2009-Q4 2010-Q1 2010-Q2 2010-Q3 2010-Q4 Grand Total
AUS 20% 33% 33% 13% 0% 0% 0% 0% 0% 0% 0% 0% 100%
BRA 8% 15% 31% 15% 8% 8% 8% 0% 0% 8% 0% 0% 100%
BUL 13% 20% 20% 0% 27% 13% 0% 7% 0% 0% 0% 0% 100%
CAN 20% 33% 20% 7% 0% 13% 7% 0% 0% 0% 0% 0% 100%
CHN 40% 13% 20% 20% 7% 0% 0% 0% 0% 0% 0% 0% 100%
CRO 20% 20% 40% 0% 13% 7% 0% 0% 0% 0% 0% 0% 100%
CZE 33% 20% 27% 7% 0% 13% 0% 0% 0% 0% 0% 0% 100%
EGY 27% 33% 13% 27% 0% 0% 0% 0% 0% 0% 0% 0% 100%
ESP 21% 36% 7% 14% 14% 7% 0% 0% 0% 0% 0% 0% 100%
GEO 13% 7% 27% 20% 13% 0% 7% 7% 0% 7% 0% 0% 100%
GER 20% 27% 7% 20% 7% 0% 13% 7% 0% 0% 0% 0% 100%
GRE 40% 27% 20% 13% 0% 0% 0% 0% 0% 0% 0% 0% 100%
HUN 27% 47% 7% 13% 7% 0% 0% 0% 0% 0% 0% 0% 100%
ISR 27% 7% 20% 7% 13% 0% 20% 7% 0% 0% 0% 0% 100%
ITA 13% 27% 7% 7% 27% 20% 0% 0% 0% 0% 0% 0% 100%
KAZ 40% 20% 27% 13% 0% 0% 0% 0% 0% 0% 0% 0% 100%
MEX 21% 14% 0% 7% 14% 14% 0% 21% 0% 7% 0% 0% 100%
MLT 20% 7% 40% 20% 0% 7% 0% 0% 0% 0% 0% 7% 100%
MNE 13% 0% 27% 20% 13% 13% 0% 7% 0% 0% 7% 0% 100%
NED 33% 13% 20% 7% 7% 7% 13% 0% 0% 0% 0% 0% 100%
NZL 33% 40% 7% 20% 0% 0% 0% 0% 0% 0% 0% 0% 100%
PER 7% 13% 7% 7% 7% 20% 7% 13% 0% 0% 7% 13% 100%
POL 13% 27% 20% 20% 13% 7% 0% 0% 0% 0% 0% 0% 100%
ROU 36% 29% 14% 7% 7% 7% 0% 0% 0% 0% 0% 0% 100%
RSA 27% 40% 13% 13% 7% 0% 0% 0% 0% 0% 0% 0% 100%
SGP 23% 15% 0% 15% 15% 15% 0% 15% 0% 0% 0% 0% 100%
SLO 0% 20% 13% 0% 7% 13% 0% 20% 13% 0% 7% 7% 100%
SRB 20% 13% 13% 27% 0% 20% 0% 0% 0% 7% 0% 0% 100%
TUR 13% 13% 13% 33% 20% 7% 0% 0% 0% 0% 0% 0% 100%
UKR 15% 23% 31% 15% 8% 8% 0% 0% 0% 0% 0% 0% 100%
USA 14% 36% 0% 14% 14% 0% 7% 0% 7% 0% 7% 0% 100%
ZIM 40% 7% 20% 20% 0% 7% 0% 7% 0% 0% 0% 0% 100%
Grand Total 22% 22% 18% 14% 8% 7% 3% 3% 1% 1% 1% 1% 100%
1 Like
129

Gibson,

I referred to your phrase “if the goal is to win games at big tournaments, we should be sending the best team to do that”. Nobody suggests putting 12s on 16U national team and I would not argue that a boy with 2014 birth year should play on PSW Red unless he really belongs there. But I see nothing wrong with letting a super talented 2014 to play on the Blue team and learn. After all, Blue team’s mission is definitely development and not the National Championship.

The question is not if a talented freshman should play over a junior or senior on a high school team. Most likely, none of the players in such situations would end up on USMNT anyway :slight_smile:

The question is how to identify and nurture elite, and by elite I do not mean a future college player but a future Olympian. I have no clue if the particular player fits the category. But elite players do train and play up very often.
When did Daube start training with the senior national team, for example? What about Dodds? On another note, we used to have Senior National B team some years ago. I would not mind seeing some super talented hs players on such a team.

1 Like
130

I do not agree with this assessment. ODP Coaches want to win regionals. They are going to pick the best players/prospects. In the 7 years of working SPA, Coastal, PSW, and PAC, that has not been my experience. However, as I mentioned before, there is bias (at times) with club coaches and/or HS coaches, but that is the reason NT Staff members are at these camps more often than not. Also, there can be pre-determined selections only for players that have been seen multiple times in past competitions.

3 Likes
131

We either aren’t having the same conversation or we are saying the same thing.

Daube and Dodds were heavy contributors on the teams they played on. There are guys who were on the Youth team that were bigtime contributors. I’m in favor of that. Moving a kid up to a national team just to sit is not something I’m in favor of. I’m not talking about ODP zone teams. ODP championships are mostly 6 in, 6 out half way through the quarter. No one sits. I don’t care who makes the zone teams. I couldn’t care less who makes the SOPAC Blue team, as an example. Most of that washes out by NTSC. Apples and Oranges.

132

You can recheck what I have written on this thread -I doubt that anybody would want to do it, but it is another matter :slight_smile: I have never advocated putting younger players on US National teams if they do not belong there.

133

Thanks, same with you, see you in San Jose next month. (:slight_smile:

134

@JFranPolo I don’t agree and can cite countless examples of coaches choosing their HS and club players over better players. Often the better players have a life long love and continue to play the sport. Others just fall out, casualties of the decline in participants. With the ODP system set up to maximize revenue, it’s a short term thinking.
My kids have been lucky to be on the inside of this. But so many of their freinds end up on the outside. Sucks to see it happen.

135

My Valentine’s night ended early. Here it is for the Youth Teams at Worlds in Argentina 2024

Country 2006-Q1 2006-Q2 2006-Q3 2006-Q4 2007-Q1 2007-Q2 2007-Q3 2007-Q4 2008-Q1 2008-Q2 2008-Q3 2009-Q3 2010-Q1 Grand Total
ARG 20% 20% 20% 13% 20% 7% 0% 0% 0% 0% 0% 0% 0% 100%
AUS 27% 13% 33% 13% 13% 0% 0% 0% 0% 0% 0% 0% 0% 100%
BRA 29% 21% 14% 14% 21% 0% 0% 0% 0% 0% 0% 0% 0% 100%
CAN 0% 13% 27% 27% 13% 7% 7% 0% 7% 0% 0% 0% 0% 100%
CHN 38% 8% 8% 8% 8% 8% 8% 15% 0% 0% 0% 0% 0% 100%
COL 15% 23% 15% 15% 8% 0% 8% 8% 0% 0% 0% 0% 8% 100%
CRO 13% 27% 0% 7% 13% 0% 20% 13% 0% 7% 0% 0% 0% 100%
ESP 57% 14% 0% 0% 7% 14% 7% 0% 0% 0% 0% 0% 0% 100%
GRE 13% 33% 7% 27% 7% 7% 0% 0% 7% 0% 0% 0% 0% 100%
HUN 27% 13% 27% 7% 13% 13% 0% 0% 0% 0% 0% 0% 0% 100%
ITA 13% 13% 13% 27% 20% 7% 7% 0% 0% 0% 0% 0% 0% 100%
JPN 0% 23% 15% 0% 15% 15% 8% 0% 8% 8% 0% 8% 0% 100%
KAZ 14% 21% 21% 14% 0% 14% 7% 7% 0% 0% 0% 0% 0% 100%
MNE 20% 7% 7% 7% 13% 7% 27% 7% 0% 0% 7% 0% 0% 100%
NZL 23% 23% 15% 15% 15% 0% 0% 0% 0% 8% 0% 0% 0% 100%
RSA 33% 47% 13% 0% 0% 0% 0% 7% 0% 0% 0% 0% 0% 100%
SRB 20% 20% 20% 13% 0% 13% 13% 0% 0% 0% 0% 0% 0% 100%
TUR 7% 40% 13% 0% 7% 27% 7% 0% 0% 0% 0% 0% 0% 100%
URU 0% 13% 13% 33% 13% 7% 7% 13% 0% 0% 0% 0% 0% 100%
USA 40% 13% 7% 0% 20% 7% 7% 0% 7% 0% 0% 0% 0% 100%
Grand Total 20% 20% 15% 12% 11% 8% 7% 3% 1% 1% 0% 0% 0% 100%
1 Like
136

Appreciate you weighing in.

[Putting this PSW dev mess aside for a moment, but noting that each of the warring factions were represented with a zone head coach in the selection process, so who knows what happened behind closed doors.]

You’ve hit the nail on the head - the zone coaches want to win, and they pick the best “players/prospects”.

There is a large difference between “players” and “prospects”, but the zone coaches will default to “players” because they get accolades for winning NOW but no one will remember they were the zone coach who first identified a junior/senior national player 6 years from now. They will pick the oldest and most experienced, neither of which are great predictors of future potential.

How’s this as a way to tilt towards prospects over players - run a “where are they now” retrospective and give awards to the zone coaches who identified the most collegiate and pipieline team members back when they were development and cadet age.

Sounds like a project for @jeff!

1 Like
137

Goals aren’t everything, for #$!%^!&! sure (penalty shots can really skew this, not everyone is a goal scorer, earned exclusions are great, etc. etc.) , but, here are USA Cadet goals from Malta. Doesn’t include the goalies

Birth Quarter Players Goals Shots Shooting % % Goals % Shots
2008-Q1 2 19 37 51% 24% 22%
2008-Q2 4 40 79 51% 51% 46%
2008-Q4 2 14 35 40% 18% 20%
2009-Q1 1 2 7 29% 3% 4%
2009-Q3 1 0 7 0% 0% 4%
2010-Q1 1 2 3 67% 3% 2%
2010-Q3 1 2 4 50% 3% 2%
Total 12 79 172 46% 100% 100%

3 of the 4 2010 goals were scored in the first 3 games.

138

If you’ve got a source for historical zone coach listings, please share. I did once attempt something along the same lines you propose but I couldn’t come up with the coaches. I’ve got data on players at zone championships back to 2016, those selected to NTSC, and Nick Johnson Award winners, but I’m blank on who was coaching the various teams.

139

Obviously anytime we say “they left better players off these teams” that’s an opinion. Since ODP doesn’t use 6-8 challenge scores or statistics to pick the teams, it is truly opinion based (and the coaches are the experts here).

There were 21 recruits to the “Big 4” schools from the USA this past year that were freshman in college. I checked past ODP rosters and it would appear that 19 of them made zone rosters at some point that I can find.

The only 2 that I could not find were Alex Heenan (from Harvard-Westlake) who ended up at UCLA and Spencer Williams (from Coronado) a goalie who is at USC.

Now whether or not these 2 tried out for ODP and were not selected I don’t know, but the other 19 players all were a part of ODP (most from Dev all the way to Youth).

I would make the case that ODP is rarely missing on the “best” players as assessed by college coaches. Just saying the results here kinda speak for themselves.

2 Likes
140

As a parent of several high school boys who go through this process every year, I have been following this discussion thread closely.

Question: is it pretty much a given that younger zone team members (those who have moved up to Youth from Cadets, eg) who were previously selected as NTSC players as Cadets will be selected again for their first year on Youth? Or is there a realistic chance for others to make it in if their performance is objectively strong enough?
Thanks!

141

Only have access to SPA Dev and SPA Cadet. Congratulations to the selected players.

Development
SPA RED SPA BLUE
1 Derin Sahin 1 Leo Martinez
2 Jack Bambury 2 Barrett Anderson
3 Greyson Bouquet 3 Asher Barnea
4 Kekoa Clements 4 Kyson Carrera
5 Brener Dawson 5 Luke Colman
6 Drake Hamilton 6 Grayden Gibson
7 Khanh Huynh 7 Graham Kotkosky
8 Matin Mirrafati 8 Ethan Lee
9 Quinn Pasin 9 Vasilije Markovic
10 Christopher Song 10 Jude Neppl
11 Derek Spruill 11 Aki Strong
12 Henry Tatum 12 Onni Viitanen
14 Ford Wawrzynski 14 Clay Wells
13 Tucker Westmoreland 13 Jesse O’Connor
Cadet
SPA RED SPA BLUE
1 Oliver Aguero 1 Van Johnston
2 Elijah Bolton 2 Parker Day
3 Asa Chen 3 Dimitris Dimitrakopoulos
4 Owen Clark 4 Jackson Ertel
5 Tanner Gorman 5 Curren Francisco
6 Ronan Keane 6 William Friedman
7 Lars Knepper 7 Nathaniel Gluzmon-Chuang
8 Christopher Koo 8 Jack Jacobson
9 Ezra Nelson 9 Parker Johnson
10 Dylan Park 10 Blake Jurevich
11 Andrew Schneider 11 Davis Kipp
12 William Weir 12 Devin Riley
14 Joseph Wraith 14 Cal Ulicny
1A Stefan Vukojevic 13 Zane Kieckhafer
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