I want to note on your last portion that usawp’s yearly revenue is roughly 10x Croatian national water polo federation. Where does that money go?
And not to mention no player in any European national Team, needs to pay a dime nor raise further funds to travel (includes the selection camps they attend 4+ times per year).
@PoloEnthusiast
This is a fantastic question that I don’t have an answer for but would like the answer to!
@WPolo9
If water polo were as popular as basketball or football, I’m assuming the case would be the same here. Ultimately, the European National Teams have greater support than our own. Which opens the discussion as to why do we lose great players at the highest levels because they can’t support families while dedicating the time needed to play at those levels.
Financials:
(page 11)
Looks like the ODP program had a deferred revenue of just over $200k. In a vacuum, we could say that the program has the resources to be improved. I claimed that ODP relies on volunteers, can someone confirm or deny that for me? That being said, my discussion points on the benefits of ODP remain valid regardless of the opportunity to improve the process.
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Zone coaches and National team staff are paid for zone camps. National team selection camp is a volunteer basis for zone coaches, not sure about national team staff.
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My comment was strictly on financial conversion as someone made a comment that USWP revenue was X10 of Croatian WP Federation. If this is the case we should be able to afford , giving players suits and outfits as well as taking them to camps and tournaments without the need of additional fundraising from each player.
Does anyone know when SOPAC and PSW rosters are being released to the athletes and/or the public?
Sounds from the thread like the PSW rosters are out (hence the complaints). We haven’t seen anything from SOPAC.
So if I understand you correctly you believe it is great that a talented kid born 2014 should be chosen over (for example) a 2012 kid who is currently an all around better player offensively & defensively because the younger kid will have an opportunity to flourish? Why shouldn’t the 2012 kid have an opportunity to flourish? Wow I really could not disagree more. I kind of believe you should not marginalize a child for being a better player just because he is older than a younger player who has on opportunity to flourish. I am all for younger kids to flourish in this sport, but not at the expense of older better players who are competing for the same roster.
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Further to this, if the goal is to win games at big tournaments, we should be sending the best team to do that. When you see the stats from the tournaments, seldom to you see major contributions from the younger players that were chosen for their potential. That costs the team wins and the correct aged players the development we are trying g to achieve. Does Spain regular send 12-14 year olds to play 16-18 international tournaments? I don’t know.
The point is, who knows if the intended mission is being achieved by the choices made?
Sure, if I have to choose between say a 8th-10th best player from a good 14U team (out of curiosity, how many LJU kids have been chosen?) and a kid who
(a) could be somewhat weaker but
(2) is 2 years younger, and has a much higher upside,
yes, I would choose a younger one it in a heartbeat at the Dev level.
The high purpose of the program is to develop elite talent that could eventually play for the US National Teams, as far as I understand the program’s goals.
Udovicic could see the high potential of Filipovic when Filip was 10, and yes, elite European kids often train with older players.
The number of Malcolm Gladwell references on this thread has me downright giddy…
Throw in some Simon Sinek and Scott Galloway references and we are on our way to a hell of a TED talk.
ODP is a game, within a game, within a game and the outcome is 97% pre determined. Unfortunately most kids and parents dont even realize they are pieces on the game board and have been moved off. Camps and clinics exist to find the diamond in the rough
but most of the kids who move through are known quantities. There are so many eyes and ears on pool decks that the Zone team and beyond level players have been identified pretty early and by 14s and at the latest, 1st year 16s, have migrated to a blue blood club with (frequently) better coaching and regularly playing vs other top 10-15 in Platinum or D1 Futures talent. All these kids and coaches know who everyone is and many have been working together at Academy for months before ODP zone teams come out.
And Im not saying this from sour grapes…my kid has been blessed to have some great opportunities through ODP and Academy and from connections to coaches andist of all his hard work. But it was telling that he was able to accurately name 90% of the A and B teams for his zone to a person, before even reading the list…juat ran them off in his head.
PS…the birthday analysis was super interesting. Thanks to the folks running those numbers.
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Most comments here are correct. ODP selections are pre-determined and not based on talent or ability. There are the true talents, that are academy and have travelled with national teams. The rest, are mostly chosen by their own high school or club coaches. You can say it is becasue they are choosing “known elements” but the reality is most use ODP to keep their high school and club goign strong. I’m sure everyone sees those players as they stand out. Usually you can eaiser draw the connection between the coach and the player. It’s not an accident that they are usually private school coaches.
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Well again I could not disagree more. Why should the older kid who is all around better player not be chosen for a younger kid who you say has an opportunity to flourish? Why shouldn’t the older all around better player have an opportunity to flourish as well? I think that absurd. Besides I have seen amazing playing 10U kids who turned out mediocre when they got older and I have seen 10U kids who did not play well turn out to be amazing players when they got older. (and to answer your curiosity) (again you seem to be obsessed over how many LJU players were chosen. And again you keep missing the point. It is not a numbers game. I don’t care if every player chosen was from Del Mar and not one LJU player was chosen if all those Del Mar Players deserved to be there in their respective squads, or visa versa. That is the way it should be. Because it is pretty obvious to anyone who is objective that a few (not most) but a few of the kids that were chosen to be in the Dev A team over a few kids that are on the B team was not due to who the most talented players are. Not to mention 2 kids who were inexplicably not chosen at all over the few kids that were. A case could always be made about a kid honestly being overlooked, but the truth is the coach knows exactly who these kids are, he has played against them for years, in fact one of the kids that was not chosen on any team pretty much scored the majority of the goals against his team when they beat him in 12U JO’s last year, so I don’t believe it was something that he missed. I just think it is unfair for the kids who work their behinds off every day trying to get better so they can compete in a level playing field only to get marginalized for being on the wrong club team. I hope that answers your curiosity. 
This year’s (and next year’s) Development ODP championships will showcase the results from the 5v5 and 6v6 experiments.
This year, we will see 2011s who “grew up” in 10u playing 7v7 and (then re-entered real polo in 14u) combined with 2012/2013 (& 2014s) who have only known 5v5 and 6v6.
I expect that those teams who have players that can control the field (in water leadership abilities) will perform better than teams who lack the 7v7 experience or are dominated by selfish players.
My prediction:
I suspect that we will see an indictment of 5v5/6v6 formats which will come in the form of misread man-up opportunities as well as a reduced capability in reading the game, passing on the perimeter, and more play-errors such as swimming the ball in traffic through the scoring area – all originating from the reduced player number and reduced playfield size in 12u and 10u.
I’m curious as to how, next year, the Development ODP championship will look when it’s played by athletes who have never known 7v7 outside those talented few that have played up from 12u to 14u.
I’ll be watching with one eye shut and trying not to cringe every time a ball is unnecessarily placed on the water within 3m of the goal, defenders all around… I really hope I’m wrong.
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Cod,
I have not been able to force myself to read such a long paragraph. I am sure you probably have some reasonable arguments, but I feel that we are going in circles. Good luck to your player- and I mean it sincerely.
The leading scorer for LJU 12u in their JO game vs. Del Mar is now at Del Mar.
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DivGradCurl,
I am not sure that 2011s “grew up” in 10U playing 7v7. There were no significant tournaments from March 2020 till early 2021. And at the 2021 JO, 10s played 5v5, afaik. Same for 2022 JO.
It’s absolutely true that the 10 year olds in 2021 played 5v5 in JOs. The tournaments prior to that were 7v7 and any games played in years prior were, obviously 7v7. Players that started at 5 or 6 years old had 3 years of 7v7 before the 5v5 play went into effect.
That’s what I meant by “growing up”. The edits here were just for additional context.