Did US run out of energy? Flat and out of sorts with ball in their hands all game long
Shoutout Adrian for keeping them in this game. Hope we win the bronze.
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Putting the extra man inefficiency aside, it really feels like the men’s team went away from what made them successful in the games they won in this game. The defense wasn’t there, we were leaving early, not field blocking and not hitting shooters. It seemed like they were so desperate to get some offense going that they abandoned the defense that got them there and it allowed natural goals and late exclusions that the Serbians took advantage of. They didn’t even need Mandic to beat us really.
Have to respect what the Serbians have done this Olympics. Had their golden generation with back to back golds. Most of those players and the coach retire and no one really considered them a favorite and they are right back in their third consecutive gold medal game.
This isn’t the reason U.S. lost but they do need a lefty for 2028… would help our 6 v 5 a lot
This group hasn’t been to this stage before and it showed. Serbia was more composed and played their game
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The US Achilles heel (6 on 5) reared its ugly head again. This was a game of composure and the US lacks it. Even the worst Serbian team of the modern era showed they have played much higher level, consistent water polo than our boys.
If Ryder Dodd was European, he’d be getting ready to start his men’s professional season at a top level club. Instead, he’ll wither in the NCAA system and be marginally better in four years. THAT’S why we’ll probably never be on the level of these teams.
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There are plenty of lefties in the player pool for 2028. We need at least one of them on the team, maybe 2. Everyone dropped their lefties when FINA shrank the rosters, but now they have restored the roster size. The teams that have performed well in this tournament have all had one or two lefties that made an impact. Limiting our 6-5 to only being able to go 1-in effectively, as opposed to every other country that can also go 6-in, has been the key differentiator in this Olympics.
There’s logic around not taking a left-hander if there are not any available at the caliber of the rest of the team. And this year’s USA team has that argument available. We didn’t have a standout lefty, as Abramson just didn’t perform on the international level in the leadup to the games. But for 2028, we have internationally experienced, young left handers that should make the team. I hope Udovicic, or whoever the coach is after the outcome of the Bronze medal match, realizes the importance of the left-hander and preps one for LA.
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I agree with the European comment.
Unfortunately, the NCAA system is the best we have in terms of development. I would argue that Irving, Obert, and the Woodhead brothers all “developed” into Olympic players and benefited from the NCAA system.The others like Cupido, Bowen, Hallock were always talented enough to be on the team
What we have always needed a professional, competitive league in the US. The National League has been running close to 10 years with absolutely no success or momentum. To be blunt, its just bad water polo played by out of shape alumni and current college players. Half the teams are USA Pipeline teams.
USA Water Polo needs to do more. The people at the top seem content to collect and do the same thing year after year. With a chance for fresh blood with the CEO opening, they choose someone with 0 water polo experience but with an impressive resume for adding $$$ to the bottom line
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Weinberg will be even better in four years if he sticks around and plays in Europe. This is a huge plus. By the way, I think he greatly benefited from Spanish Cal players shooting at him in practice.
The National League needs to be rebooted for sure. If the Aussies can do a league we should be able to. Let the Quicksilver tournament folks take it over or something new.
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Realistically, what would “doing more” look like? The National League is a bad product for the reasons cited. But we are making headway as a national team because players are playing internationally. I don’t see a huge need to force them to stay home nor a huge appetite for the product here. We already use the dues-paying members of USAWP to fund the national team, I don’t know if it’s worth reallocating more money at the National League to support the national team when imo it’s destined to fail.
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NCAA water polo isn’t a hindrance - ask Hallock, Pavillard, Mercep, Genidounias, Papanikolau, etc. It’s what happens after graduation, when in the past most Team USA guys have felt the need to start their business careers rather than continuing to be fully devoted to polo.
As far as having lefties goes… I’ve been mildly surprised to see just how many teams play a righty at 6 on 6v5. Even the teams with good lefties play them at 5 for the most part. Just an observation but I don’t know if the lack of lefty is as big of a deal as everybody tends to make it. The bigger issue seems to be our lack of shooting ability across the board as compared to the European teams.
Bijac!!! What a goalie. And Maro Jokovic coming out of retirment and playing so well…
That really was a great game. Bijac with a goalie clinic and the rest of the Croatians putting on a vertical shooting clinic. The Hungarians had their chances, but couldn’t break through.
I think you see more righties at the 6 because the better shooting angle is at the 5 especially with teams playing the lower players at the lane line with the new 2m rules.
Where the lack of a lefty on the right side impacts the play is how the defense challenges the righty shooter versus the lefty there. You can see it when you watch a team like Serbia defend our extra player. Our right handed players on the left side have less room to shoot and the posts have less space to move because the defense shades more back and to the left side because they are more content to let the righty shoot from 5. Likewise, a lot of the goals on the extra from those spots by the lefty’s are catch and shoot opportunities. Even a great righty like Bowen can’t get that shot off as quickly as a lefty there and those small margins matter against the best goalies in the world.
It’s not the only issue on our extra man, but it’s the root of the issues. It changes how the defense plays against us. It changes the spacing for the other players. It changes the speed of ball movement and the shooting lanes.
The fact of the matter is the best teams have a lefty who is a consistent vertical shooting threat and we don’t.
You’re naming players from national teams who rarely challenge. 11 of the Greek players didn’t play NCAA.
How many Serbs, Croats, Hungarians, Italians and Spaniards played NCAA and made their national teams?
Those five countries are far and away the best in the modern era.
The US is competitive at times because we have probably 5 or 6 times as many people in a player pool
On the topic of lefties, I found it interesting to think back to at least 2000 and realize that every gold medal team had at least one lefty. Several of those teams had two lefty’s. At least two of those teams (2004/2008 Hungary) had three lefties. And not just great players, but dominant players. My water polo history knowledge could use a tune up, but I wouldn’t be surprised if Hungary’s Kiss and Serbia’s Filipovic and Mandic were/are top 5 players in the world during their time.
Is Mandic considered the best player in the world right now?
Also interesting to note the last time the US medaled they had a lefty who played great in 2008.
The US needs an elite lefty for 2028.
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There were two crucial moments in the second half of Q3 (with about 3:15 and 1:30 left) when USA had 6 on 5 and did not capitalize. Mandic just got his second exclusion and looked a bit frustrated. Jaksic had two exclusions as well. Had USA capitalized on at least one of those two 6 on 5s, the game might have had a different trajectory. Bad execution of 6 on 5 has been killing the team all tournament long.
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I’d say yes Mandic is a top 5 field player in the world currently — obviously it’s hard to pick these because different positions provide so much to a team but in my opinion the current top 5 are Dusan Mandic, Alvaro Granados, Thomas Vernoux, Ben Hallock, Nikola Jaksic
The fact that Serbia has 2 on this list is huge by the way and probably the reason they are in the final.
Great list. I would put Zalanki on that list and have two lefties, but his Olympics has been less than stellar.
Runner up based on his olympics to date: Loren Fatovic
Definetly need to add Stylianos Argyropoulos to the top 5. That guy is ridiculous in every game i watched Greece play.