Yawn. Time for people to focus on more pressing topics, such as lists of best 12u boys players and teams.
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You want an answer? Talk to the ODP coaches after a few drinks. I know I have talked to several who felt they were forced to pick kids over other more talented kids, and that’s why they stopped coaching ODP.
There’s lots of other political reasons a kid might make a team over another more talented player. Things like Playing on the club the coach coaches at, dad played with the coach, coach knows kids for years. To act as if that’s not the case is to be blind to the process, you learn this quickly just by being a fly on the wall with no skin in the game.
I can’t corroborate the theory In terms of paying for a spot, but this is something I’ve heard more at this years ODP national championships, then I have ever heard in my 22 years of being a water polo parent…more parents from more teams.
The absolute worst and most disgusting part is ODP coaches telling kids in their zone they need to play at their club or HS to have a chance of playing on the zone team…then using that to recruit players away from clubs on a false promise. You have kids leaving clubs, hoping to make ODP then end up quitting the sport. Any coach pushing this is not growing the sport, they are just picking away the competition, instead of developing talent.
Having put multiple kids through this process, our purpose was to learn to be resilient, to be able to play with anyone and for any coach and to get comfortable through the evaluation process. The last one being key as it will happen at a new club, showcases, moving into College teams, getting hired for a job. I don’t think National team kids are glued here for rosters when they get sent to their email. But in the off chance they saw a post questioning roster positions, I’d imagine they would quickly evaluate if that was them or not and either laugh about it or have an emotional breakdown. Point being, if they were authentically going through the process, and made it that far, reading something like this shouldn’t/wouldn’t even effect them.
I don’t have the money to grease those wheels. So I know mine would relish in those thoughts knowing they were that much better, and truthfully I hope 100% of national team athletes feel they earned their spots, it wouldn’t be right if the kids themselves felt they made it for purely political reasons.
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What he said…^^^^^^^^
Some of the top coaches with drinks in them at a hotel bar at ODP Nationals or JOs, after 10 or 11pm is the single best place to over hear all the behind the scenes information…no filter combined with arrogance and some of these guys are loud by nature…
I highly recommend folks to try it some time…enlightening…
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Can you elaborate? I have a 16u son who is getting ready for the recruiting process but I would love to understand this more.
Never heard about monetary influence until this thread… But politics 1000%. I won’t name the zone or age group but this year one team was made up of basically the two coaches club kids and now they joined together to make a combo team. That ODP zone team was defiantly not talent based at all, and it showed.
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Could be because of the claims made on this board and not due to any facts. Seems to be happening a lot in the last few years, unchecked rumors get people talking so they must be true. Bad cycle.
Coaches will ask if you need financial assistance to attend their school. Players who can pay the full rate may get opportunities that players who need financial aid won’t get. Teams have budgets. Players with enough talent will get opportunities, regardless of financial considerations.
Another issue - what about the ODP coaches that recruit for their USWP team?
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They need to be a lot better than just above average. This is where many ODP and college recruit parents fail to grasp what really good really looks like (I’m not saying you, NLM). Sure, there have been a few recruits over the years that are head scratchers and have financial rumors around them. Not many each year, IMO. Before roster limits, coaches would take almost anyone who could pay full tuition. Now, they don’t have that luxury.
Students may be smart enough to attend a certain school, but if they can’t afford it, they’re not going there. this applies to some athletes, too. Water polo isn’t football, not everyone gets a scholarship.if you need financial support, you’re competing against that group first and could be behind kids who will pay. This is not a water polo problem.
Some coaches frequent the same well they’ve drawn water from before. Doesn’t mean it’s an old boys network, it means they’ve been happy with the product they’ve received and like the brand.
There are 130+ boys on the 2026 commit sheet and I’m sure many more not listed. Those who think money or influence is a factor should claim a number (certainly no names!). How many on that are less than legitimate? 5, 10, 25?
It would be interesting to see how WP compares to other sports in this regard. Volleyball, soccer, basketball would likely be the best place to start. Is WP more political or less than other team sports?
And then - if it’s true that politics are rampant in every team sport - the question would then go to the governing body leadership for direction on how to resolve this conflict.
For USAWP - the sport seems to be orchestrated by a few coaches who are doing way more jobs than they should be doing and they are spread way too thin. Maybe they volunteered or maybe they were asked based on their credentials but it looks like USAWP doesn’t have much in the way of middle management. It’s primarily coaches and membership.
Generally I’m opposed to more government employees, but maybe USAWP membership should look in the mirror and offer to increase our yearly dues so we can pay a few employees who are not affiliated with any club/college/zone.
Two or three employees who live and work at the OTC in Colorado Springs (instead of Irvine) and who don’t have any apparent dog in the fight might help police certain political issues.
It would still be likely for those employees to have favorite clubs and zones that they tend to gravitate towards. However I would be willing to pay an extra $75 on my yearly membership if it meant topics like this were less pronounced in the sport.
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This is the kind of proposed solution to an alleged rampant problem that hasn’t been validated. People complain that their kid was passed up for something other than legitimate reasons. Sometimes, easy excuses are easier to accept than the truth. It turns out, Joe Biden just won the 2020 election.
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I think the college discussion and ODP are quite different. The college spreadsheet for 2025, 2026, and now 2027 has a solid list. It is nuanced. I think you would be hard pressed to find a kid on their not deserving to have made a team, but maybe not the team they signed to like a big 4 or second tier, but still worthy in their own right. Also we should be careful to not assume because you don’t know who a kid is that they are not worthy. These coaches are doing their homework and their job is to put their team in the best position to win, period. I trust college coaches are doing the right thing to put their program in the best spot for success. They will also tell you the kid has to be very very good, not just above average, but it is about many more things once they are identified to have the skills. There are 2 families I know of with the monetary cloud over their head, but I will say their kids are still very very good players and good enough to make a team. So that argument doesn’t carry a ton of weight, but it could help get them over the top with a specific school. ODP on the other hand deserves way more critique as the coaches there, unlike college coaches, have a different incentive than winning. Winning a zone championship or ODP is not the goal. Thats when you need to look at what their incentive may actually be, and then you will be able to understand the behaviors and dynamics.
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Gibson - I don’t have any knowledge that politics actually does play a role in WP at ODP or any other level. But other commenters here are expressing it as a fact. Im merely offering a possible solution for the sake of discussion and problem solving on WPE.
Unfortunately the burden of proof is problematic for all sides. Naming names is defamation of character and would immediately be flagged by WPE. However, super vague insinuations are allowed.
Those super vague insinuations could possibly hold some truth even if they cause a lot of harm in the process.
I’m mostly advocating for more USAWP employees because I see how much the current on-deck coaches are doing. They are being asked to do too much and they are spread too thin.
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I think one thing that i have learned with multiple kids is from Marco on here, and i am paraphrasing - the selections for ODP are generally done before the National Championships, and the kids who will make it might even be playing at a different level (playing up), so you should never assume that being on a team that does well will guarantee spots. For example, from both SPA teams at the Cadet level, only one player made any national team, despite having a team in the finals. More transparency might help soothe the feeling of players (more realistically parents) that what you see in that tournament is not dispositive.
to the point here though - you want to believe that the money you’re spending and the time and commitment your kids are making is going to pay off in result “x”. You have to shift your thought process that it’s a great learning experience to be around good players and good coaches, and the result is probably not going to happen because if you are not already in the pipeline at 12, you are generally in the outside forever, no matter what you show, which only helps fuel the narrative that some nefarious forces are pulling strings, which I think this whole thread is about.
Six players who were Cadet eligible for SPA were moved up to Youth for the ODP Championships. Then brought down for the CADET NTSC.
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Good points -
Also don’t forget the parents who go complain until their kid gets moved from the B to the A squad.
During my brief adventure with ODP, had a couple head scratchers make the selection camp. They stuck out during the tournament and neither of them advance. On the flip side, I saw a coach stump for a girl who struggled during the camps. She ended up having an excellent tournament and stayed in the pipeline through Cadets.
Honestly it’s really no different than a parent making a donation to a high school program, or making sure the “right people” are on the booster club.
It shouldn’t happen but it does.
I think you’ve come to the right conclusions in both your paragraphs. We need to sticky a post that says “The outcome of the scrimmages at ODP do not impact the number of selections from any team.” Everyone needs to accept this. It is perfectly transparent. Those who complain that the outcome and the selections don’t match don’t seem to understand how transparent that signal is. Apparently, they want it to be different and won’t accept the obvious, transparent answer.
We can see every two years if the selections change when world championship teams age up. I’ve never done the research, but the data is likely out there.
Not sure if I should be posting this here or over on the original thread, but what is the difference between the selections in three categories (i.e. Cadet June Camp, Cadet Futures Budapest, and Cadet Futures Belgrade)?
From this, it seems you were working with development aged kids for a limited amount of time. Coaches advocating for players who may not have had good camps should be expected and appluaded. It’s been said many times by many people that the evaluation period is always ongoing.
I’m not sure how the leap to donations is made or supported by your experience with coaches supporting players they know.
Basically,
- The World Championship team will be chosen from the June Camp. That is the A Team
- The Budapest team is the B Team. Those who don’t make the World’s team can be moved to this group.
- The Belgrade team is the C Team.
Good expereinces, all.
Being on any of these teams may help the player stay in the pipeline when they age up to Youth.
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