Preseason Poll Predictions

The criteria is embedded here:

https://docs.google.com/viewerng/viewer?url=https://collegiatewaterpolo.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/10/2023-24NCMWP_PreChampionshipManual.pdf&hl=en

Now this is last year’s so it may be changed. However, the primary criteria are:

-w/l record
-strength of schedule
-eligibility of student-athletes for Championships

The secondary criteria is:

-head to head
-results versus common opponents
-late season performance
-power ranking

That’s why and this is using my alma mater as the example and not Pacific. You don’t want to take any losses but for seeding purposes you REALLY don’t want to take a loss against a team held up opposite to you when seeding the tournament (hence the outsized importance of the Princeton game for us).

The greatest college water polo experiences are built on rivalries and history. Big Splash, UCLA vs USC games, NCAA Championship games (obviously) are in that category. I like very much vibrant atmosphere at the UOP games, I like that UOP comes up with a very strong team every three years or so, but they do not offer the greatest college water polo experience, and they are not close to being “Water Polo U” unless they start winning many NCA titles. Maybe it is impossible to achieve such things in a place called Stockton, who knows. On the other hand, we all benefit from a strong program at UOP and Graham deserves respect for that.

I think we forget how difficult it is to beat big 4 teams and make NCAA finals. 1 guy outside the top 4 has made an NCAA final and he has done it twice. The guy invented analytics and gave it to the world and was immediately ridiculed…now everyone uses them.

When the big 4 decided UOP couldn’t go to the MPSF Tourney, he essentially decided he was going to RPI to the #1 seed (if UOP handles their end and goes undefeated). My source for this information was on the conference call when they decided to disallow UOP’s participation. This kind of behavior highlights how difficult it is to accomplish what he’s accomplished. Yeah, your favorite Big 4 coach does shady crap to maintain their status…

1- UCLA
2- USC
3- CAL
4a- UOP
4b- Stanford
4c-Princeton
7- Pepperdine
8- UC Davis

It comes down to MPSF tournament for any of the top 4 powerhouse teams to get the highest seeding for NCAA finals in order avoid any early round and quarterfinals matchups against ANYONE from this list as there will be some “upsets” this December!

In the eyes of the committee, what do you think Pacific/Princeton would have to do to get a top 3 seed in the NCAA tournament over a Big 4 school?

Pacific plays Princeton twice, but no big 4 school. Princeton also plays Cal, USC, UCLA, and the MPSF tournament.

UncleManMan,

Someone else in this thread states that Pacific declined to participate in the MPSF tournament. You state that the “Big 4” didn’t allow Pacific to participate. It would help if you identified the source for your information. Also, do you know why Pacific isn’t playing in this weekend’s Triton Invitational? If Pacific were participating, they would have played one of the “Big 4” schools.

I predict Pacific will win the West Coast conference and will therefore automatically qualify for the NCAA tournament. If Pacific’s only loss this season comes in the West Coast conference championship game, I predict they will not earn an “at large” bid to the NCAA tournament because their strength of schedule doesn’t compare with the other top five or six schools.

On the other matter raised in your post, U.C. Irvine has won three NCAA men’s water polo championships. UCSB and Pepperdine have won one. U.C. Irvine finished second six times. San Jose State, Long Beach State, and UCSD finished second once.

So I meant since Pepperdine…recently, or in the last 27 years or so. UOP’s recent accomplishments in my opinion since 2011 are significant. No one should ever try to downplay Newland’s or Pepperdine’s achievements, I should have been more clear.

I will absolutely not name my source :slight_smile:

UOP is going to Brown I think according to their site.

The fight was over how many games were going to be played at the tourney, some of the former Pac-12 coaches took offence to this.

Absolutely its a razor’s edge UOP is on this year. You are right it would be tough to earn an at large without playing Pac-12’s…

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MPSF seems tailored to the big 4… I’m UCSB family and it was that tourney that ended our undefeated run in 2019… smaller teams have to either go all out against a big 4 but save some gas for playing a can’t lose conference game same day, or vice versa and they don’t have a big enough talented and enough roster to win both in a day. With 3 of the big 4 sharing a conference it benefits them to take out any smaller school having a good season that way to get their at large bids for NCAAs. More small teams should take a stand as it looks like the big 4 did.

How is strength of schedule determined?

I think the 2024 men’s college season will be one of the best in recent memory. This will be the last season significantly affected by the NCAA’s decision not to count the 2020 season as a year of eligibility. (A handful of players who entered college in the fall of 2020 and redshirted in 2021, 2022, or 2023, may choose to use their fifth year of eligibility in 2025.) Although I think any of the “Big 4” schools could win the NCAA championship, I predict UCLA will win.

Here are my predictions:

First. UCLA (ceiling 1, floor 2). UCLA may have more talent and depth than any team in the NCAA era. UCLA has two Olympians and two or three potential Olympians. They are at least two deep at every position and four deep at center and center defender. UCLA’s “second team” would be a top six team. If Adam Wright starts a LH attacker (Ben Liechty or Wade Sherlock), an Olympian (Ryder or Chase Dodd), a 2023 1st team All-American (Jack Larsen), or a 2023 2nd team All-American (Mo Kenney) will not start. As Rb notes elsewhere in this thread, having this much depth is not always a good thing. We’ll see how Adam Wright manages playing time and expectations. I don’t think UCLA will go undefeated. However, unless they lose more than one key player to an injury, I don’t see anyone beating them in the NCAA tournament.

Second. Stanford (ceiling 1, floor 5). This is year 3 of the Brian Flacks regime. If anyone doubted whether Flacks would be able to recruit at Stanford, Stanford’s incoming class should put those doubts to rest. Consider this starting lineup comprised of seven incoming Stanford players:

Goalie – West Temkin (transfer from Princeton, 2023 junior national team, potential 2028 Olympian)

Center-defender – Orestis Zervoudakis (2024 Greek youth national team)

Center – Dash McFarland (transfer from UCSB, 2nd team college All-American in 2023)

Center – Will Schneider (JSerra Class of 2024, 2023 junior national team, potential senior national team player)

Attacker – Botand Balogh (one of the best players on the Hungarian team that won the Youth World Championships in July)

Attacker – Ryan Ohl (Brunswick Class of 2024, 2023 junior national team, potential senior national team player)

Attacker – Ben Forer (Northgate Class of 2024, 2024 youth national team)

One point to anyone who can name a better incoming class from any school during the NCAA era.

Flacks’s best teams at Harvard-Westlake had very good to great centers. With all due respect, one couldn’t say the same thing about Stanford’s 2022 and 2023 teams. McFarland and Schneider give Flacks two strong centers to work with this season. Stanford has two potential 2028 Olympic-team goalies: Temkin and Griffen Price. Most of the commentators on this website favor Temkin over Price. I think Price is the better passer and has a higher ceiling but he has had more injuries than Temkin and the current national team coaches seem to prefer Temkin. Having two goalies of roughly the same ability is not always a good thing because only one can start. As former Cal football coach Mike White said in 1973 when he had to choose between Vince Ferragamo (led the Los Angeles Rams to their first Super Bowl appearance) and Steve Bartkowski (the first pick in the 1975 NFL draft), you can’t have two first-string quarterbacks. My guess is that (1) Temkin and Price will share time during the regular season because neither of them will clearly outplay the other and (2) Flacks will start the one he believes is better in the MPSF and NCAA tournaments. If this is what Flacks does, I hope he follows Dusty Litvak’s 2023 Princeton model when Litvak started Temkin and Hungarian Kristof Kovacs the same number of games and didn’t pull the starting goalie every time he made a mistake. In my opinion, coaches that have a quick hook at goalie (or quarterback) are generally making a mistake. Stanford is loaded at the attacker position. If Stanford has a question mark, it’s the center-defender position. Redshirt senior Ethan Parrish, an excellent player, is likely to start at center defender but his best position is attacker.

Third. Cal (ceiling 1, floor 5). Cal, the 3x time defending NCAA champions, lost center Nikolaos Papanikolaou and goalie Adrian Weinberg from last year’s team. Papanikolaou and Weinberg would start on my all-time Cal team:

Goalie – Adrian Weinberg (3x NCAA champion, 1x Olympian)

Center defender – Jon Svendsen (3x NCAA champion, 1x NCAA POY, 2x Olympian, Hall of Fame)

LH center – Chris Humbert (3x NCAA champion, 2x NCAA POY, Cal’s all-time leading scorer, 3x Olympian, Hall of Fame)

Center - Nikolaos Papanikolaou (3x NCAA champion, 3x Cutino Award winner, 1x Greek Olympian)

LH attacker – Kevin Robertson (1x NCAA champion, 1x NCAA POY, 3x Olympian, Hall of Fame)

Attacker/center defender – Luca Cupido (1x NCAA champion, 1x Cutino Award winner, 3x Olympian, almost certainly a future Hall of Famer)

Attacker – Kirk Everist (2x NCAA champion as a player, 6x NCAA champion as a coach, 1x NCAA POY, 2x Olympian, Hall of Fame)

Coach – Pete Cutino (8x NCAA champion, Hall of Fame)

One point to anyone who can name a better all-time starting lineup from another college.

Cal returns 10 of the top 11 scorers from its 2023 team, including two 1st team All-Americans (Max Casabella and Roberto Valera) and one honorable mention All-American (LH attacker Albert Ponferrada). Cal’s incoming class includes freshman Patrik Kolak, 20, an attacker from Croatia with extensive international experience. Kolak is said to be an exceptional player, with one college coach saying he is a potential Cutino Award finalist and another saying he is “ridiculously” good. George Avakian and Jordi Gascon will share time at center. My guess is that Riley Clansen or Kai Seed will be the starting goalie by the end of the season. USC is the only school to win four or more NCAA championships in a row. If Kolak is as good as some people say, Cal could finish second. However, I don’t think they will win their 4th straight NCAA championship.

Fourth. USC (ceiling 2, floor 5). USC loses Massimo Di Martire form last year’s team but returns goalie Bernardo Herzer (honorable mention All-American in 2023), center Max Miller (1st team All-American in 2023), center defender Luka Brnetic (2nd team all-MPSF in 2023), LH attacker Zach Bettino (honorable mention All-American in 2023), and Carson Kranz (2nd team All-American in 2023). Incoming players include LH center Jack Martin (scored 35 goals for Stanford in 2022, did not play last year), redshirt freshman Stefan Brankovic (Brankovic, 23, played for Serbia in the 2022 FINA World League Super Final), and Robert Lopez Duart (2nd team All-American as a freshman for LBSU in 2023).

Fifth. Pacific (ceiling 3, floor 6). Pacific lost to Cal in the semifinals of the 2022 NCAA tournament. Five starters from that team redshirted last year but return for the 2024 season: goalie Bae Fountain (2022 honorable mention All-American, New Zealand senior national team), utility player Jeremie Cote (2x All-American, Canadian senior national team), Reuel D’Souza (2x All-American, Canadian senior national team), Mihailo Vukazic (NCAA all-tournament 1st team in 2022), and Matthew Hosmer. Center Oliver Fodor (transferred to Pacific from Wagner College where he scored 208 goals in three seasons) also redshirted in 2023. Stefan Vavic returns for his second season at Pacific. He was an honorable mention All-American in 2023. I predict Pacific will go undefeated during the regular season and win the West Coast Conference, automatically qualifying for the NCAA tournament. I think they will win their first-round game at the NCAA tournament and lose to one of the “Big 4” teams in the semifinals. If Pacific doesn’t win the West Coast Conference, I don’t think they will receive an “at large” bid for the NCAA tournament. Pacific isn’t doing itself or anyone else any favors by not playing a tougher regular-season schedule.

Sixth. LBSU (ceiling 5, floor not in the top 8). I think LBSU will beat U.C. Irvine in the Big West Conference championship game. LBSU has two good goalies: Aaron Wilson (2x All-American at U.C. Davis) and Liam Ward. In addition to Ward, LBSU’s returning players include utility player Bruno Chiappini (honorable mention All-American in 2023), Evan Cain (honorable mention All-American in 2023), Marc Frigola (scored 35 goals and had 28 assists as a freshman last year), and Caleb Francisco (scored 30 goals as a redshirt freshman last year). LBSU’s incoming class includes Wilson and center Gabi Acosta (played for Spain in the U20 European Championships in August). Acosta will join the team in mid-September; he is expected to be the starting center.

Seventh. Princeton (ceiling 5, floor not in the top 8). Dusty Litvak is one of the best coaches in the country. He should be a candidate for any openings at a “Big 4” school. It would be interesting to see how he would do at a school like UCSB. I don’t think Princeton will be as good as they were last season. However, I still expect them to make the NCAA tournament. Princeton’s returning players include goalie Kristoff Kovacs (honorable mention All-American in his freshman season last year), center defender Vladan Mitrovic (2x All-American), and Roko Pozaric (3x All-American, Cutino Award finalist in 2023).

Eighth. U.C. Irvine (ceiling 6, floor not in the top 8). U.C. Irvine’s returning players include goalie Jay Pyle, center Tyler Padua (2x honorable mention All-American), Luka Krstic (3rd team All-American in 2023), and Johann Thrall (honorable mention All-American in 2023). Not counting the “Big 4” schools, Irvine may have the best incoming domestic class with, among others, goalie Vince Vega (La Jolla), utility player Ethan Spoon (Huntington Beach), LH attacker Jay Hubbard (De La Salle), and Cole Francisco (Los Alamitos).

jeff, Thanks for the great breakdown. I agree with you in that this is going to be a great men’s season. The talent across the board is superb.

Not sure if my all-time Stanford team would knock off your Cal team, but it would definitely give them a run for their money:

Goalie - Gansel

Center Defender - Campbell - I am going to cheat and play Campbell here. If not, I would go with Hudnut

Center - Hallock

LH Center - Klass

Attacker - Azevedo

Attacker - Wigo

Attacker - Bowen

Coach - Dettamanti

An all-time UC Irvine team would be pretty interesting here too —

GK: Chris Duplanty

Center: Ryan Bailey

2MD: Peter Campbell

Attackers: Gary Figueroa, Mike Evans, Jeff Powers

Utility: Tim Hutten

Size and speed wow this team would be a menace — having entire bench of Olympians wouldn’t hurt either with Jeff Campbell, Dan Klatt, Rick Merlo, Omar Amr, John Vargas, Lovre Milos (Croatia), and Genai Kerr as backup goalie