It should mirror college for the entire state. That’s a whole other thread, tho. And not a USAWP thing, but CIF.
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Agree with this, but to keep the focus on JOs, they need to move the tournament to beginning of July. Rumor is CIF-SS is going to go with universal start dates for all sports, so boys water polo can start competing on Aug 1st, GWP Nov. 1, etc.
If that does happen, could we see a decline in JO participation and by default get less teams in Champs/Classic? Or could we see an increase in “closed” clubs for their HS teams only?
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that would be great… and I hope CIF-SJS would accomodate this.
they are currently the only CIF section that has an all sports dead period (no high school coach/player contact) from July 1st - 14th.
SJS better change their dead period for 2028 as JOs will be in early July.
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Interesting re CIF-SS rumor. Seems like all CIF sections should follow the same rules, but idk enough about that.
LA28 Olympics could be helpful with earlier JOs dates already scheduled - maybe USAWP would consider continuing beyond 2028?
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I just think the issue is a team can’t even opt out of Championship into Classic if their zone doesn’t have enough teams trying to qualify. I’m sure plenty of small non-CA clubs would rather get challenged at the Classic level than the Championship level, while still getting to come to CA.
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I am not sure expanding the number of qualifiers from stronger zones would change things for better in many age groups. Take 14u girls for example, since someone posted a lot of AI data in a related thread.
This year, the weakest Championship team from the Coastal zone ( Temple City) finished 13th in Gold. The weakest Championship team from PAC ( SHAQ) finished 11th in Gold. The weakest Championship team from SPA ( CDM) finished 10th in Gold, the weakest Championship team from PSW ( La Jollla) finished 9th in Gold. The second weakest Championship team from SPA ( Elite) finished 8th in Gold. Does anybody think that adding even weaker (Classical qualifiers) SPA/ CCA/ PAC teams to the Championship bracket would have changed anything for better this year?
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I think it would be interesting to instead show the Classic finishes. The example I have off the top of my head from last year was 12U boys classic where SPA teams finished 1, 2, and 3. Likely those teams would have better competition in Gold.
Perhaps if JOs allowed the re-rack after day 1 to bump teams up or down, similar to Futures? This would not help weak teams that don’t have an option. Example would be in 12U coed this year the last place team lost every game (has to be crushing), but there was only Championship division and no Classic division to drop to.
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I am not sure that I follow your argument. In the14u girls tournament those additional qualifiers from stronger zones would have ended in the bottom half of Gold. Yes, some of those teams might be a bit stronger than many of the current bottom half Gold division finishers, so what? The stronger zone teams play in quality tournaments year round. I would rather give an opportunity to some non- California teams if their coaches think that it might be beneficial for their better players. The main problem with many non- California teams is depth.
P.S.
For the sake of completeness, I have also checked 16u and 18u girls results.
For 18u, the weakest PAC Championship team finished 19th in Gold (6th from the bottom), the weakest PSW Championship team finished 12th in Gold, the weakest CCA Championship team finished 10th in Gold, and the weakest SPA Championship team finished 3rd in Gold.
For 16u, two weakest PSW Championship teams finished 16th and 19th in Gold, the weakest CCA Championship team finished 6th in Gold, two weakest PAC Championship teams finished 4th and 5th in Gold, and only the weakest SPA Championship team ( CHAWP) finished in Platinum, where it got 19th place. It was mentioned in a related thread that CHAWP 16u had two international players on their roster.
I have a few on my list (and happy to agree to disagree !)
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After 2 yellow cards in consecutive games a coach has to sit-out the next one. The attitude of some of the coaches is painful to watch, a waste of time, and even often their players complain about it offline. I saw the same coaches get carded all the time, and at least from where I was, it was just posturing. Right now a yellow has no consequences. Have one; even better force the coach to go officiate a game instead.
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For the non-CA zones, USAWP should have some sort of a portal the way other sports do where “free agents” could find teams. Believe it or not, it’s hard for some teams to have full rosters available. Right now the process is purely based on network and who-knows-who.
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Shade in the stand. We’re paying $60 per session.
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Regulation size pools. On this board we often wonder how to keep our teams competitive at the international level, having some 16U platinum games in pools that are not regulation size or where on-the-fly sub is not possible is definitely not going to help. And again, given the amounts we have to pay, hard to see a true reason for it.
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Use the international clock rules. Ok this one is likely a thread of its own
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Give a discount to the non-So Cal teams for attending.
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Running clock once the goal differential hits 10.
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The problem with this one is unintentional suspensions. Referees use yellow cards as a tool to get games under control. It is intended as a warning, not a suspension. If the referee wanted to hand out a suspension, they have a different card for that. By making a previous game’s yellow count toward a suspension, it takes away the subsequent referee’s discretion to issue a warning. The worst part is the subsequent referee likely would have no idea the ability to issue a warning had been taken from them. They’d pull out a yellow card with the intention to quiet down a coach and end up causing teams to forfeit if there were no assistant.
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Can we get rid of wristband entry? I’m a 50 year-old man and don’t need a tether on my arm for 4 days so USAWP can take a gate fee. Make it simple, figure out a per team average you you need to collect in gate revenue and divide that up between the teams registration fees. If you want to add a SOCAL team tax because they have more fans watching per team than others (something you should be able to track with the online sales) so be it. You can save money because you won’t need 2 staff people manning gates all day to check arms, so overall it should be a reduction in pricing. Do the same for GOLS if that’s the route you want to go with streaming in the future. Personally, I think GOLS is a service that got surpassed by easy ways for anyone to stream as every team has its own production crew these days and parents would rather listen to a homer broadcast than someone referring to a sheet of paper to identify goal scorers and assists, but I’ll let USAWP manage that.
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There was a tournament this season for which the ticket was a rubber bracelet, like the old yellow Lance Armstrong LiveStrong bracelets, but custom-made for that tournament. Those were great! You didn’t have to wear it all the time. If Mom could make it one day and Dad the other then the bracelet could be handed off. It also opened the possibility of being a keepsake if that tournament was a memorable one.
Perhaps a bit off-topic, but there is one change to JOs that doesn’t need to change: This year’s Woollett set-up. For those who didn’t make it to Woollett this year, what they did to that venue this year was incredible. It was better than Stanford-Avery by a mile. Woollett looked like a destination that wanted to host the USAWP Championship, and it still had plenty of free parking in the back lot.
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The Woollett set up this year had nothing to do with USA water polo JOs. USAWP should send a big thank you gift basket to USA Swimming.
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The stage for medals was different than last year and it was really nice. HOWEVER, families did not have great options for viewing and photos (had to jam up the crowded in/out for the stands).
My suggestion would be to have a medals stage separate from the pools. Even if it has to be in the parking lot. This allows families to get better photos and videos, and doesn’t impede the start of subsequent games.
Hate to be complaining about bracelets on here but I did hear several people complaining about them. They seemed more bulky than normal. Maybe the cloth ones like those used for stagecoach/coachella would be better and could also be a keepsake.
The setup at Woollet was very cool but I think USA swimming signs everywhere made it pretty clear that usawp was not the one driving this. Also didn’t help that Wollet right had a support column in the middle interfering with the view of the pool.
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Not sure I’m suffering from “phantom bracelet syndrome,” but I keep reaching for my forearm to readjust the bracelet that I cut off yesterday. Sheesh.
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This makes me feel for the Northern California athletes. They are always having to travel down here. Will Futures also always be down in SoCal? Do they at least get a break in tournament fees? I know personally I wouldn’t be able to do all that travel financially.
Great memories having JO’s at Stanford!
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Agreed on the plastic bracelets.
Just to add to the convo, not all teams participate is Futures. Look at the CHAWP 14u girls. They placed 7th in Platinum and arguably were very close to pushing their way into top3-5. They never attended one Futures event. They added no players and in fact lost a player very early in the year. Only played with 1 sub and were able to keep the pace. They were very creative in how they developed their athletes. Why did they do so well in JO’s yet did not attend Futures?