I’d offer a different perspective as someone who grew up in a “weaker zone”, played NCAA water polo, and now coaches in California.
Coming to California Jo eye-opening. We got humbled—I remember losing to Johnny Hooper’s team by 10–15 goals( I don’t even remember the score). But I also remember playing against a future Olympian. Those games were invaluable, and I wouldn’t want to take that opportunity away from future players.
If the margin is 10–15 goals, I think teams should keep playing the right way. Coach your system and don’t slow down or teach bad habits just because you’re ahead. I really have no sympathy for the opponent, sorry that’s life.
Once the lead reaches 15+, it’s on the coach to manage the game: no counterattacks, play only front court, hold the ball until late in the shot clock, etc. But asking players to stop competing or play unnaturally isn’t the answer. If your kids are discouraged by the gap, the response should be to improve in practice, not expect the better team to lower its level. Players develop far more in practice than blow out games. Be a supportive parent but also if your kid feels bad about losing by that gap remind them there’s more work to be done. Ask them: Are you gonna complain or are you going to work hard and get better? Teach them some life lessons, that’s the point of sports, not for the parents to feel good about their kid’s success in the pool. Maybe your kid needs to reassess how they practice and if they are giving their full effort.
I do agree that a running clock at a 10+ goal margin makes sense since there’s no pool-play goal differential to consider on day one.
Final note: California teams get elite competition year-round. For teams traveling from other zones, this may be their only chance to test themselves against the best. We don’t come expecting to win every game—we come for the opportunity to compete. I’d hate to see that opportunity taken away cause we aren’t “worthy” of playing the top teams.
Computerized using what criteria? There is not a lot of inter-zone play so what criteria do you use to determine seeds? The computerized rankings of So Cal teams is out of whack a lot.
Why? It is not near aby of the other pools. For spectators, Mt SAC is a better pool, but it’s not any better a location. Maybe we could all chip in and build a decent stadium at UCI.
My problem with the Futures League is that it was not founded to make water polo better, to increase participation and further the sport. It was founded by elite coaches wanting to make their elite teams better. I can’t say I blame them, but I also can’t look the other way.
Definitely needed earlier, esp w/ boys season starting in the fall. With the switch to Session 2, a lot of the high school boys now go straight to try outs after JOs. Last year, a lot of the high schoolers took advantage of having a week off in between to do special summer programs.. but this year, it’s more challenging."
There is a way to do it if you use past JO results to compare the relative strength of zones. But the way USAWP does it now creates the least controversy imo
I would argue that we should not have proportional allocation by zone. Rather, expand the number of qualifiers from stronger zones and reduce them from weaker zones. You can’t tell me that LOWOP wouldn’t have rather played in Classic than lose 31-0. They weren’t good enough to win a weak zone, they should play at a lower level at JOs, it’s better for everyone.
There are actually high schools holding try outs this week while club players are at JOs. Caveat would be this is an inland school. Any club player could probably just walk on.
Absolutely has to be officiating. Sport is in the dark ages, especially considering all technology available to us. I watched way too many games where the outcome was determined by wrong calls. And these were not games where I had any skin in. Its shameful and to accept this as “just the way it is” is patently absurd. Any investment should be made there. The next would be, and I know this will be controversial, would be to make JO’s more commercial. Couldn’t find water to buy, food to buy merch to buy anywhere other than Woolet, which is just dumb. I’m sure most would rather open my their wallet at a venue than to light in on fire with scam that ODP has become. USA WP has to diversify their revenue stream away from ODP.
I completely agree with your opinion regarding the value of non- California teams competing against stronger opposition at JOs. I can also add that last week, Honolulu 14u, seeded 40th, finished in the top 20, and Texas Thunder 14u, seeded 39th, finished 13th. Thunder did not win their zone Quals, btw.
But even if a team ends up at the bottom of the Gold division, it might have 2-3 kids who are actually pretty good. It should be up to club coaches to decide whether a trip to the Championship tournament is beneficial to their players. With the Session 3, we are already seeing some teams choosing to go to Texas…
I cannot imagine a world where we have VAR for age group national championships, we don’t even have stats at most games, which would be a nice to have.
There should be a big focus on officiating though. I am not sure how to improve it, but we need more refs and effort to help them improve their skill. There is zero chance these refs want to make bad calls, these are passionate folks that are not highly compensated. Would a third ref help? I tend to think not.
NorCal girls HS water polo has always dealt with this. This is the first year they have had a small break between summer club and the high school season. It is very welcomed.
Given NorCal’s girls’ issue, it only makes sense to move JOs earlier, then. If the timing for Session 2 (and Session 3) wasn’t good for the girls, how does that make it good for the boys? It’s obviously not good for both.
USAWP should push the timing forward overall. Given the bigger picture, the athletes should be given the opportunity to take advantage of other amazing summer programs to build up a wealth of experience before moving onto college.
Not sure this works for JOs, but I have always thought having every club entering a tournament to provide one certified official (whether it’s a coach, parent, or alumnus) for the event. Obviously, they would never referee their own club’s games but it would increase the pool of referees and give clubs a better appreciation for how difficult officiating it is.