Good points, @H2polo10 — I get where you’re coming from, but pool play isn’t some wild CIF experiment. It’s used in almost every major international and elite-level competition — World Cup, Olympics (water polo, volleyball, basketball), World and European waterpolo championships, College World Series, and even NCAA women’s beach volleyball nationals. The idea is the same: reward consistency and depth, not just who gets hot for one game.
This format is to reward consistency and depth — you shouldn’t be done because of one off-day or a single upset. Even in pro sports, MLB playoffs and the NBA Finals rely on multi-game series for the same reason: to find the true best team, not just the lucky one.
At the Open Division level, where every team is elite, this approach gives fans more high-quality games, players more exposure, and coaches a truer test of their teams. The only flaw is the crossover setup — fix that, and CIF’s got a great modern format.
Fair points. There are 3 different playoff formats I can think of off the top of my head: Single elimination like March Madness, series such as pro basketball and baseball (I previously alluded to these as single elimination which I incorrectly stated; they are series but against the same team), and how it’s done with water polo in the Olympics - pool play then single elimination starting in the quarters. The current set up is most similar to the water polo Olympic setup, so it obviously has merit.
Definitely need to fix the crossover if they’re gonna stick with this format. I still like the March Madness format the best for high school water polo. But if this turns out to be better, then I’m all for it.
In the 10/8 rankings, Laguna was 11th. Since then, they beat 9 SS teams with an average ranking of 32! Sage hill was the highest at 20, and that was a one goal game. Harvard-Westlake and Loyola had much tougher schedules. The implication that teams should not play hard games that they may not win is a really flawed message. Since 10/8, Loyola beat Buena (12) and Mater Dei (13) but lost to the top NorCal teams. HW beat Loyola (10) but lost to other top teams.
Agree-Massey ratings didn’t appear to put much emphasis on strength of schedule and in a few cases head to head wins.
Crossover will force the best teams at that time to win consistently which is a good thing because that’s what the best teams do. Crossover also seems to account for possible errors in Massey ratings.
I find in interesting that CIFSS did not release their final, end of regular season ranking #5 when they announced the pairings. Would it be because it does not show Laguna jumping from #11 (Ranking #4 - October 8) to number 8 over Loyola, Dos Pueblos and Harvard Westlake?
Are the Massy Rankings used, exclusively? There’s a coaches committee, so I’m assuming there’s some ambiguity with that. There’s a few curious placements between divisions 1-3 that are kind of interesting too. Overall, it’s a lot better than last season.
Here are my predictions, often wrong, for this year’s CIF Southern Section Open Division Tournament. The top four schools in the Open Division will be invited to participate in the Southern California Regional Tournament.
(1.) Newport Harbor. Newport, very well coached by Ross Sinclair, has the strongest senior class in the country and the strongest group of attackers (led by three “Big 4” recruits), but isn’t as strong up the middle as they were last year. Newport is the clear favorite but they could lose if they don’t play well and other schools do.
(2.) Santa Margarita. I think four schools (Santa Margarita, Corona del Mar, Oaks Christian and JSerra) could finish second. Santa Margarita, well coached by former USC assistant coach Ivan Buich, is strong up the middle and has one of the best attackers in the country (Evan Wu). The recent addition of LH sophomore attacker Brahman Davis has given Santa Margarita more depth and another fast swimmer.
(3.) Corona del Mar. After Newport, CdM may have the second most-talented roster in the tournament.
(3.) Oaks Christian. Oaks Christian didn’t play very well in the North vs. South Challenge, finishing 8th. Still, it would be a mistake to count out a Jack Kocur-coached team.
JSerra. JSerra is very well coached by Brett Ormsby. Attacker Connor Coleman (UCLA) will probably be a 1st team All-American. If goalie Jonas Ransford (Harvard) plays up to his potential, it won’t surprise me if JSerra finishes 2nd.
Adding on to Sunscreen’s report:
JS 1-2-1-1 F-5
NH 4-2-5-2 F-13
The score was 4-3 NH with 4:19 left in the second quarter, when NH started a run of seven straight goals to make it 11-3. JS scored its fourth goal with 0:15 remaining in the third.
While I’m checking in, here’s an Open Division historical tidbit: Harvard-Westlake is playing in Division 1 this season. This is the first time they haven’t been in the premier division playoffs since 1991. So, they were in the playoffs for 32 straight seasons (1992-2024, 2020 not played). This is second all-time to Long Beach Wilson’s record of 34 straight seasons (1974-2007). Ironically, Long Beach Wilson has returned to the premier division for the first time since 2015.
Southern Section Open Division Pool Play Day 2:
Newport 13, JSerra 5
CdM 15, Long Beach Wilson 10
Oaks Christian 17, Laguna Beach 11
Santa Margarita 12, Mira Costa 11
An interesting feature of today’s games is that it is the first meeting all season for Newport Harbor vs. Oaks Christian, JSerra vs. Laguna Beach and Santa Margarita vs. Corona del Mar.
As Sunscreen reports, this will be the third meeting between Mira Costa vs. Long Beach Wilson. Previous games were: Mira Costa 9, Long Beach Wilson 8 (Wed., Oct. 22 at Long Beach Wilson); and Mira Costa 9, Long Beach Wilson 7 (Fri., Sept. 19, a ninth place quarter-final match in the South Coast Tournament played at Newport Harbor).
4/4 with decent estimates of the score diffs. Nice ! You should have joined us in the weekly Fantasy Water Polo! @clark is designing a second round focusing on NCAA finals. We hope to dramatically expand the circle of WP speculators.
The two Crossover games on Saturday should be entertaining contests. If you were of a mind to, you could easily take in both of them. JSerra vs. Mira Costa will be held at JSerra at 2 p.m. Then, Santa Margarita vs. Oaks Christian takes place at Santa Margarita at 5 p.m. The two locations are only 12 miles apart and 22 minutes of drive time (estimated).
In terms of prior meetings this season:
JSerra vs. Mira Costa: 1) JSerra 8, Mira Costa 4, on Fri., Aug. 29, at JSerra.
Oaks Christian vs. Santa Margarita: 1) Oaks Christian 12, Santa Margarita 11 (OT), on Thurs., Sept. 18, in a “Sweet 16” game, in the South Coast Tournament, played at Foothill. And, 2) Santa Margarita 14, Oaks Christian 6, on Sat., Oct. 18, in a Fifth place semi-final, in the North-South Challenge, played at Sacred Heart Prep.
I’m always curious about what affect the drive times will have on the visiting teams. Mira Costa is 52.3 miles (and 1 hr. 2 min. drive time) from JSerra. Oaks Christian is 94.05 miles (and 2 hr. 8 min. drive time) from Santa Margarita. In Southern California, it’s never about the mileage – it’s always the traffic!
(P.S. - Apologies for the previously deleted post; pagination problems.)
