sorry, i said probably not, meaning the probability is low. In my experience with one D1 school, 75 percent of the available water polo athletic scholarship money is going to international players, the other 25 percent is split up between 3-4 domestic players who were all top recruits (NTSC kids) not to say a lower level recruit cant work their way up to a partial or even full scholarship. everyone develops at a different rate, I did not mean to imply it was impossible at all. D1 is hard work and I know of quite a few NTSC/Academy athletes who did not make it past their first year and never saw playing time in a single game. I also know of a few kids never selected for academy or even NTSC who are doing well and contributing at the D1 level even as freshmen and sophomores and having a blast.
Thanks. I am still trying to understand. So you are saying 3-4 top domestic recruits who are NTSC kids are the ones getting the non international athletic scholarship dollars? That is not true.
I am only giving an example of one D1 school since I only know the distribution of one school. sorry, only meant to try to assure parents not to get discouraged if their kids were not chosen, there is still hope for them to have a great career and make great lifelong friends.
Got it. So for the one school international recruits took 75% of that schools money and the 3-4 incoming freshman attended NTSC and got 25% of the money. We just need to be careful how we are framing these thing up on the board. For example I have two examples I could share of domestic athletes taking 100% of the tuition. And NTSC is not a meaningful indicator. If I donât share that is Air Force and Navy that could be misleading.
Also are those incoming international freshman recruits in that 75%, existing international team members, transfer portal internationals, etc. I am not expecting you to answer that. Also, there is a massive difference between being NTSC and being a top recruit. With NTSC making sure to include a couple from every zone, whether or not they would be invited if they were in another zone, creates large talent gaps from player to player within NTSC. NTSC can be a bit vanilla to be honest.
In Development age group SD Dons has almost double the number of kids on NTSC than the next highest number. 7 vs 4.
Are you saying that this represents political bias for SD Dons, or that they obviously have precipitated talent from a large area to one club that is then dominant at JOs and otherwise?
My own hypothesis is that SD Dons (or more aptly the legacy club) has attracted the best talent because the parents see a very high probability of winning (evidence of excellent coaching).
RE: Scholarships
It really depends on the college coach and how they want to build a team. For the most part, internationals will generally get more money because they âneedâ it and the bulk of the roster is Americans on no athletic aid or a fraction of what the internationals are getting. The ROI on that money is hit or miss, sometimes it works, sometimes it doesnât.
There are obviously Americans as talented as the internationals getting close to full rides, but unless they are under the radar, they would rather go to a more prestigious school and get no aid (Power 4 schools, certain UCs, Ivies, etc.) Coaches have to overspend to get talent that other schools are getting for free or at a huge discount.
Two changes to ODP would elevate the program past this yearly conversation about bias.
1- use the zone regional tournaments to identify elite level athletes who will be invited to various USAWP events throughout the year. They can use the elite label for their college resume.
2- Invite the senior and junior elites to a national competition where they are assigned to a team based on their position at the time of the tournament. They will then really need to show their ability to adapt and play with other top level athletes. Much like a college combine. Drop the zone teams.
I didnât mention clubs or in-zone politics. There is some, but less than most think. In my experience, nearly everyone is genuinely is trying to do the best they can for the kids and the sport.
Another perspective across clubs total selectees across all age groups.
- The previous by-club table had some errors. Re-posting
- 3 SD Shores players (only counted Youth and Cadets) selected this year were with Del Mar last week, hence total legacy Del Mar players in 2026 are 20, double the number of the second club*
Just a little feedback. You cannot lump together Del Mar and Dons. Del Mar broke up and some went to other clubs.
So what you are saying is that Del Mar would have had EVEN MORE selected in 2026, but some players left during the coup ( possibly contributing to the +6 on SD Shores roster?).
Crazy how dominant that club was/is.
Also, 31 kids added from last year? Looks like growth to my eye$$$.
I do love the perspective.
That does exist, but it isnât NTSC. What you are describing is Academy. Iâll leave the names off, but if you want to see what the national coaches really think in how the top spots should be allocated, it is this:
Keep in mind that NTSC has not happened. A large number of these Academy-invite kids have never been to a National Team Selection Camp.
Thank you @Marco for the reply and for clarifying that distinction. What youâve provided is essentially a watch list, which would definitely bring more transparency if the names were included and it would be great if more of this visibility into the player pool was provided for all age groups.
I still think a zone-based allocation system may not be the best approach if the true objective is identifying the best players nationally. In many sports, the best players tend to come from traditional hotbeds (like football, where top talent consistently comes from states such as Texas, Florida, and California) and third-party services (247, Rivals, etc.) help track and rank players nationally. It would be great if water polo had something similar. It seems like 6-8 Sports is trying to move in that direction, but the criteria they are using isnât always easy to identify or understand. Also data input issues - see other wpe thread.
It might be better to view the situation as NTSC being more involved than what is shown to the public. The 26 Development aged kids on the list above, and a bit over twice that many Cadets will attend a multi-day instructional camp next weekend. Then theyâll attend another multi-day instructional camp in mid-April. A couple weeks later, NTSC will take place with those who went through these Academy camps plus the NTSC invites who arenât on the Academy list.
Having a good showing at NTSC will likely land you on future Academy invite lists. Landing an NTSC invite but not an Academy invite is being on a watch list. Being on an Academy list means the national coaching staff has enough confidence in your ability that they are were willing to put in the effort to see if you are Team USA material, and the zone you are from at that point isnât nearly as important.
Not releasing the names reduces the pressure to balance invites in the way the NTSC list does and let the coaches focus on athlete ability. That said, there is a lot of transparency where it counts. All of what is being coached at the multi-day Academy training camps is up on Jack Kocurâs YouTube channel. Every athlete can see the instructional drills and what the coaches are looking for.
Kind of wild that a list like this only emerges on an anonymous board as a leak. Is this intentional by USAWP or just oversight?
Thank you @Marco. Youâve probably provided more transparency in a few forum posts than is available anywhere else. I certainly hope there is more involvement behind the scenes than what is shown publicly. That said, transparency is a good thingâŚ.what you shared doesnât seem like any kind of secret sauce so why not make that all public (like the YouTube channel you shared)
@Marco I see the USA Cadet team is playing in National League this weekend. any idea how the selection of that roster fit into the process you described?
The USA Cadet team playing in National League is made up of players who went through this same process. They entered the pipeline earlier and through evaluations were included on a âtravel teamâ. The kids entering the pipeline this year could find themselves on a future travel team.
Another data point is the Youth team at National League:
| Zone | Players |
|---|---|
| SPA | 7 |
| PAC | 5 |
| PSW | 4 |
| CCA | 2 |
| CEN | 1 |
| NEZ | 1 |
| Total | 20 |
Those who are invited to Academy are primarily National Team players and/or those tagged for National Team after June Camp. Having a good showing at NTSC will likely get you an invitation to June Camp where coaches select National Team members. If you donât have a good showing at June Camp, you wonât get invited to Academy practices. Even if you do have a good showing, you arenât guaranteed an invite to Academy.