Now that we’ve heard the arguments and rebuttals, how about a poll?? Not sure if WPEX has that capability but this would be a great time for it. Here’s neutral wording.
Do you favor or oppose MTN and Team Vegas’ handling of their JO allocations?
_ Favor
_ Oppose
Figured if we were voting, we can vote on more than one thing.
Forked this from the other JO’s thread, please refer to my note here:
Just a quick reminder that this is a public forum. While you may have opinions about how some adults organized the tournament or structured teams, keep in mind that high school aged competitors (or younger) are likely reading along. Many of them are just excited to compete in a high-profile event, so let’s keep the conversation respectful and considerate.
I’m seeing a majority opinion coming out of these polls that doesn’t match what’s been implemented. If y’all want to be a voice for change, please use this topic to discuss solutions.
Thanks again, @clark.
Currently, the JO Conduct of Championships protocols require:
But the rules as (not) applied neither contemplate, nor prevent, a Club/Zone from structuring their Zone Qualification “tournament” in such a way as to allow a Team representing the Zone to partner with a different Zone or Club or athletes to allow those athletes/clubs to gain access to the National Championship outside the parameters of participating in their own Zone’s qualifying tournament. Neither do the rules prohibit an athlete from declining to play for her/his club and instead hold him/herself out as a “free agent” for a club looking to add depth.
In this manner, MTN with its three 18B and three 16B Championship allocations can partner with specific clubs and athletes to allot these coveted spots to free agent athletes or to Clubs who didn’t participate in Zone qualification tournaments (whereby the non MTN Zone club obtains de facto an extra allocation without qualifying).
Query: does it make sense for a team that did not do its own Zone qual tournament (a) to take a spot allocated to a different Zone or (b) to jump the queue to take a seeded position higher than other teams from its own Zone?
Probably an unpopular opinion (since a lot of people here are very passionate about this sport).. but JOs being June instead of July would open up opportinities for these athletes to participate in things OUTSIDE of water polo, if they wanted… Some of these kids miss out on other great summer opportunities due to the timing of the season… And given that the opportunities to play in college are probably getting more limited, it would be good to give the athletes the option to pursue the other interests or participate in research projects or internship opportunities that are available during the summer.
A lot of the high schoolers in the team move on into high school try outs (or “hell week,” as some teams call it) by the end of July.. and the coaches on our team penalize the boys for missing practice, especially as they move closer to JOs… So that leaves little time for much outside of water polo.
I understand the sentiment. If JO moves, another tournament will fill that void. Therefore kids just need to make a decision that is best for them, either way. JO is one tournament, albeit a big one. Kids can also skip Futures, Quicksilver, Club Champs, etc. etc. I think it just comes down to personal choice and doing what is best for each athlete.
We will see what the new CEO decides to do with JOs and Olympics conflicting in three years. Will he move JOs and make it permanent? And if they do, move it earlier or later? End of June/Early July makes a lot of sense, especially with how early some schools start.
I know a lot of my posts don’t reflect it, but I am always in favor of changes if they make sense. Keeping things the way they are in favor of “tradition” and “that’s how they’ve always been done” are not good arguments IMO.
I think moving would benefit the community as a whole, but also open to hearing why keeping them at the end of July is beneficial for the sport as a whole.
For 14u and younger age groups, summer is practically the only time when kids could have at least 4 polo practices a week. Many school districts finish the school year at the end of the second week of June. If you move JO to late June, this will be the end of the JO as we know it. Most competitive clubs will keep practicing in July and another end of the year tournament will replace JO (at least for Platinum level teams).
I can see some value in moving JO a bit earlier for hs age groups since hs practices start in August, but again some tournaments will capitalize on this move and rather sooner than later the JO will lose most of its prestige. Just saying.
On the two 16U Championship Vegas teams, I can identify two players that are from the Mountain zone. Two! Granted, there are 4 that I can’t positively identify. So, that’s a maximum of 6 players from the Mountain zone out of 31 players. San Diego got 4 teams to Championship so this could happen? Coastal got 6 spots (out of 28 teams at quals) so this could happen?
The argument that Vegas needs more allocation so they can develop the game is quickly falling apart on the merits.
In the ‘Thoughts on Session 1 and 2 of the 2025 Junior Olympics’ thread, @jeff had awarded North Irvine 16u zero points despite Team Vegas / North Irvine finishing fourth. That prompted me dig back into this team that was so controversial in the lead-up to JOs.
Team Vegas / North Irvine 16u was the Hunter Danko show. He led the team in goals, earned exclusions, blocks, and +/-.
Hunter Danko has rostered with Team Vegas the past 3 JOs, lives in Henderson, NV, and attends Basic High School.
With the benefit of hindsight, that team does seem to have been Team Vegas finding some talent to surround their player(s) with to let them shine. The second in +/- was a kid from Florida, and the third was from Brazil.
Credit to @jeff for awarding North Irvine zero points in 16u. Team Vegas / North Irvine was not a North Irvine team.
I watched some of those games. Hunter is a great player. He’s in the national team pipeline and has represented the USA abroad a few times.
None of that justifies Vegas giving spots to teams from other zones. Build local kids around the success of a local kid.
For me personally, the details make all the difference. I am not opposed to constructing super-teams. I don’t see the sport being worse for Beast Boys existing, or for Channel Islands being a 3-club composite, or for Team Vegas building around Hunter Danko. All of that is fair and I think elite clubs, like Newport, are better for having a super-team to push them.
Where it goes off the rails for me is when teams use MTN zone seeds and a phone call qualification to circumvent having to qualify in a more competitive zone.
