The Junior Olympics schedules are determined through a combination of how the teams of a zone placed the previous year, and how individual teams finished in JO Quals this year. The process is very mechanical.
For example, this is how the top-24 placed at JOs last year in 12u:
PAC (Bay Area) teams finished last year in 1st, 9th, 15th, 17th, 21st, 23rd, and 24th. This year, the top finishing team at PAC 12u JO Quals will get the overall 1st spot. The second place PAC 12u team at JO Quals will get the 9th spot. Third place gets the 15th seed. Etc.
Unfortunately Oak City dropped from JO’s. They tried really hard to recruit another…only had 7 for qualifier. Their coach is working incredibly hard to build something there. Its going to be a good story in about 2 years when they have teams regularly competing at JO’s.
In regards to kids coming in from outside programs and programs combining…
Who actually cares? Its about kids getting an opportunity to play. If they didnt do it, those kids on that roster wouldnt be playing.
Junior Olympics is a terrible event, but its a really important event for non-Cali teams for any kind of development. If a kid is getting to play there… does it really matter if its because they combined?
If you say yes - then you should take a step back, take a deep breath, and remember this is about literal children playing youth sports. Its going to be ok.
I think there are two issues that need to be addressed and nor necessarily easily answered:
are we looking JOs in terms of fairness and/or competitive equity like CIF (meaning the best teams qualify and you get placed in your seeding [division] based on your zone)?
are we looking at JOs to give everyone an equal shot?
I might be reading the arguments wrong but seems to be the two conclusions I am drawing based upon what people are arguing.
If JOs is supposed to be the culmination and the best from each zone competing against one another, then roster minimums for kids from your zone or at least made up from clubs within your zone seems to be the next step.
If we just want to “grow the sport” and give kids exposure and don’t care about teams blowing one another out 33-0 or a team who worked hard to win their Zone Qualifier all of a sudden go up against a team with kids from their zone in the 47 seed only to lose because of shenanigans or whatever you want to call it, then it is a moot point.
I understand what you’re trying to say but the fact is there are kids who don’t play in JOs. They are on clubs in zones that don’t bring in California and international players. They don’t qualify because spots are given to zones that populate their teams with outsiders. I can’t condone that when there are teams trying to do it with their own players. There are 5 other MTN teams for those 6 boys to play on. They won’t be excluded. You’re costing development in zones when you exclude those players because other zones have lower scruples. I hate to see all clubs in all zones compete to bring in outsiders. But that’s where this will go if we allow it. So club in Pennsylvania will decide they need to fly in Californians to beat Greenwich. Then someone else will follow.
What kids arent playing? Who is not qualifying for this that should be going? Why does this matter so much to you that teams would bring in internationals? How many Cali kids on are on outside Cali clubs?
I want actual facts and numbers. Not whining.
JO’s is a bad event. Yes. And it allows for 15 kids per team, about 100 teams per division or so. Thats a lot of kids. And if a kid is doing what is best for them and finding a club to play on because they know that team will qualify - explain to me like I’m 5 why thats bad.
Wildly speculative like stating that the Vegas kids couldn’t go to JOs if not for bringing in California kids to round out their several teams? Hmm, ok.
Here are some numbers:
SEZ 18UB had 12 teams at their quals trying for what looks like only 2 spots. 10 teams aren’t coming to JOs from Florida. Call it, 150 kids. 15 of those kids aren’t coming because instead of saying “we don’t have enough teams for our allocation” as is typically done by zones, MTN said we’ll take our allocation and give it to California. They’ve been doing it for years and still can only muster 6 kids for the MTN “A” team that doesn’t actually compete against other MTN teams. Clearly, the strategy for growing the game in the MTN by farming out the play to outsiders isn’t working.
MDW zone had 9 teams going for 7 spots. Chicago, Michigan and St. Louis. Places that have all had HS water polo for a very long time. They aren’t recruiting Hungarians to put them over the top, they are trying to develop their kids and have that opportunity to bring them to JOs taken from them so that North Irvine can qualify in the MTN zone.
SWZ (Texas, where the game actually has home grown talent and traction) had 8 teams in 16UB quals. They only got 6 spots. Would the game in Texas be more or less popular if one of those 6 spots went to a team that was made up of only 1/3 kids from Texas and 2/3 from elsewhere?
So, I’m not actually speculating, I’ve looked at the data. Does it matter that California kids are playing for a team from the Mountain zone when it means other people outside of California pay the price by being excluded? I say yes.
Out of curiosity, how many of the Team Vegas players who have some history with the club, say, played for Vegas at JO 2024, actually go to high school in the Mountain Zone? My conjecture is that some of them are California kids who play high school polo in California and join Vegas project for summers.
P.S. I doubt that Vegas’ “creative” approach helps their zone and grows the sport in Nevada. All three MNT boys teams finished in the 15th-17th range at the 2025 ODP National Championship. This is pretty weak.
Every team that is outside of California that wanted to attend California this year for JO’s - qualified. And its because of the return of the invite division.
So again, I ask: Who is not going? I need specifics.
You are showing a fundamental misunderstanding of how JO allocations work. They release an original list early in the year. As zones figure out who is going to attend their qualifier event and figure out which of those teams are going to California, they re-allocate. The original list had 8 for SEZ…and ended with 2. That means SEZ only had 2 teams that wanted to attend Cali for JO’s for that age group. USAWP does not just cut those spots arbitrarily. Zones will not have LESS spots than originally allocated unless they are not needing them. Those spots then get handed off to other zones as they are needed.
That 150 kids you suggest? Its off by exactly 150.
MDW - 7 teams of that 9 registered to attend Cali. 2 of them attended the qualifier just to get games and registered for Texas. So this 2 teams you suggest are missing - is off by exactly 2 teams. There are plenty of teams in the MDW that have brought in foreign players. Want specifics? (spoiler: its multiple, and for multiple years…including this year). But the things, the foreign players arent kicking kids off the team. They are augmenting the teams.
SWZ: You see a pattern developing here?
My point is - the outside Cali zones are doing their best to find ways to navigate this travel thing. Its really hard to have teams from outside Cali figure out flights and such roughly a month before JO’s. So zones are becoming more creative with how they handle these events - and allow for teams to just get games, without the need to worry about qualifying to Cali.
You might have looked at the data, but you don’t know what that data means. Its fundamentally misunderstood.
Tournaments dont grow the sport. Investment in 14&u and younger is what helps it grow. Tournaments are simply an opportunity. Not a growth metric. Lets get that out of the way.
If Vegas has 5 kids in their club at a specific age group that want to attend JO’s, but they don’t have enough for a team. Would you say to them, sucks to suck? Or would you encourage them to do a combo squad? I say combo up and go play.
If a team from Northern Cali has 7 12 years olds that want to play JO’s, and theres a team from Greenwich that has 6 12 year olds - neither has enough to field a team. Would you encourage them to join up?
My point is:
WHO CARES?! And if you care…WHY?
Teams are doing their best to field what they can. To get kids the opportunity to travel to Cali and get games. It will be the only time for many of those kids that they would ever get to play at that level or have college coaches see them or… a long list of reasons.
Enjoy it. Let the kids play. Lets the clubs figure it out as they need.
And quit complaining about this stuff.
If you want to discuss why JO’s is a terrible event - I’m all for that conversation, however. Because it is terrible.
If you want to complain about combo teams and if its growing the sport…etc. Thats fundamentally stupid.
Now that rosters are published, what Team Vegas has done comes into focus. For those catching up about Team Vegas and the integrity of the Championship Division, here is summary of 16U:
Team Vegas controls slots in the Championship because Mountain Zone agreed not to play a qualifying tournament and gave Team Vegas control. No games played. No athletes actually earning spots.
Team Vegas controls the #1 Mountain Zone seed in 16U Championship which was (given or sold) to North Irvine. There may be a few athletes from Vegas joining North Irvine. This has been detailed in earlier posts.
Team Vegas also controls the # 3 Mountain Zone seed in 16U Championship. We can now see there are ZERO Mountain Zone athletes on this team.
Team Vegas has flat out (given or sold) this slot to Imperial from the SOPAC Zone. This roster has 100% California athletes. There are no aspiring athletes from the Mountain Zone.
This team skipped SOPAC quals and instead has been (given or sold) a spot in the Championship division ahead of clubs across the country that tried to earn a spot in the Championship through their qualifiers.
Hey folks, this thread is beginning to simmer. Let’s all try to keep it from boiling over
If you’d like to start a discussion about team structure, allocations, or tournament format, please ping me via DM and I’ll fork the relevant posts into a new thread.
Just a quick reminder that this is a public forum. While you may have opinions about how some adults organized the tournament or structured teams, keep in mind that high school aged competitors (or younger) are likely reading along. Many of them are just excited to compete in a high-profile event, so let’s keep the conversation respectful and considerate.
