Based on your answers I assume you represents USAWP. I have been in this process for 6 years and it is not ‘scrimmages ’ because it is highly relevant the final placement of the team to the number of boys selected for NTSC. 1&2 most boys will be selected if you are 5 you won’t get more than 4 to 5 boys selected even if you lost all games by 1.
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The 5 exclusions happened on Saturday morning Cadet CST Blue v Spa Red, but I also witnessed the Cadet Semi game CST Red vs PAC Red where a CST kid got Rolled and was let back into the game. The Refs certainly got an earful from National Coaching staff throughout that game too.
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I definitely don’t represent USAWP and hope no one takes my comments in that way. I’m just giving my perspective as someone that also has a number of years of experience with ODP camps. These are definitely my own opinions.
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This has not been my observation. I think most people who have been through the process will tell you that the selections are mostly made before this tournament. The winning teams don’t necessarily send the most players. It just so happens that the top four teams are usually PAC, CST, SPA and PSW. They will send most of the players to NTSC (each zone will get at least one). How those four finish has no bearing on how many kids from each team are selected.
The goal is to pick a national team, not reward individuals on a zone team that won a scrimmage.
Also, wpfan is likely not a USAWP plant on this message board to spread propaganda.
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Ahh, grasshopper @wp2024, there are lots of clues as to what my affiliations could be and therefore what position (positions?) my guy (guys?) occupies (occupy?) in the water. . . . but I won’t spoil the sleuthing fun.
My experience is that volunteers who don’t know how to take stats tend to do a worse job than no stats, because without a complete picture, the goals recorded and the exclusions suffered (per the secretary report) don’t help players understand the value of the extra pass to a superior position or how to steal an offense’s time by occupying their minds in transition (it’s harder to score with 20 seconds of attacking time as opposed to 25, so playing really smart defense can keep the ball at GK for an extra few seconds while he stresses about who’s actually open).
And asking well-meaning but inexperienced people to “do stats” leads to a second recording of what we already know. Few assists if any, no exclusions/penalties earned, no field blocks, no turnovers (typically the kind resulting from offensive fouls for $hithou$ery as opposed to a bad pass), yadda yadda yadda.
Folks who don’t take serious stats or stats in a serious way don’t get the value of how they can be used to tweak a system for the better over a season (or longer).
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If Olympic pipelining was the only result of ODP then maybe sentiments around top 4 finishes would be consistent, but that’s not the reality. College coaches & recruiters are present throughout the tournament and are specifically interested in the Final 4.
For kids who are already on the radar, it’s fine and dandy because they are already getting all the love and attention, but there are certainly other kids who are talented and deserve their fair shot at getting noticed, scouted, and/or recruited against all odds and preferential treatment the “brand name” kids get.
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I saw college coaches at both Youth pools all weekend long. A lot saw the Friday games and were bouncing around on Saturday.
Congratulations to the athletes selected to advance to the ODP NTSC:
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Interesting to see that Blue teams are sending 32 of the 198 kids chosen. That seems to be more than years past.
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@gibson is it easy to put together the breakdown of Youth by year and graduation year? Much appreciated
Yes.
| COUNT | Grad Year | ||||||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Age | 2025 | 2026 | 2027 | 2028 | 2029 | 2030 | 2031 | 2032 | Grand Total |
| Cadet | 18 | 31 | 11 | 60 | |||||
| Dev | 1 | 47 | 22 | 4 | 1 | 75 | |||
| Youth | 1 | 40 | 14 | 7 | 1 | 63 | |||
| Grand Total | 1 | 40 | 32 | 39 | 59 | 22 | 4 | 1 | 198 |
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63 players for youth team???Seems excessive isn’t usually the norm initially around 30-32 to camp, followed by a cut down to 24 and then another one down to 16 based on international standards?
Good luck and congratulations to all the candidates.
WPolo9,
It looks pretty standard for NTSC, actually.
Last year was Y65/C54/D72
Dev NTSC birth year and quarter
This is embarrassing
Of 247 zone players, 75 make NTSC
0 have 2011Q4 birthdays (0 for 22)
1 has 2012Q4 birthday (1 for 6)
Here’s the breakdown. Each column sums to 100%
| YYYYQ | Zone Team | NTSC |
|---|---|---|
| 2011Q1 | 28% | 36% |
| 2011Q2 | 17% | 21% |
| 2011Q3 | 20% | 19% |
| 2011Q4 | 9% | 0% |
| 2012Q1 | 10% | 8% |
| 2012Q2 | 5% | 7% |
| 2012Q3 | 4% | 5% |
| 2012Q4 | 2% | 1% |
| 2013Q1 | 3% | 1% |
| 2013Q2 | 1% | 0% |
| 2013Q3 | 0% | 1% |
| 2014Q1 | 0% | 0% |
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Watching the game you are referencing, you are correct. My bad 
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The 2024 Boys Cadet team (34 athletes identified on the USAWP website) breaks down as follows:
2008Q1: 5
2008Q2: 8
2008Q3: 4
2008Q4: 3
2009Q1: 3
2009Q2: 0
2009Q3: 3
2009Q4: 3
2010Q1: 1
2010Q2: 0
2010Q3: 2
2010Q4: 0
2011Q1: 1
I offer these data to show that the “hunt for size” (which is often presents in youth sports that select based on birth year; see, e.g., “Outliers” by Gladwell) may dissipate as the athletes grow and remain in the game.
I also note USAWP’s willingness to spread the wealth to younger players by calling Dev age up to Cadet (and this year calling Cadet up to Youth).
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ODP is a joke. Families should take the money and time they waste on it and spend it on good quality camps and international play. Until that program gets transparent and metric based no one should support it.
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ODP is not a joke. It’s just not all things to all people. I’m not sure if USAWP knows what it is. Ive said it before, it is a social event for everyone involved (I heard the Marriot lobby was great for people watching. Any WPEX hats?) with a chance to get some new coaching and exposure. Enjoy the experience. Not everyone will understand why certain choices are made. I surely do not. Parents don’t know what the coaches are looking for. Metrics? Come on. Many parents don’t understand the game, they certainly won’t understand what high level coaches are looking for in high level players. Also, the politics are overpowering. I’m actually encouraged by the many Blue team players that made NTSC.
USAWP doesn’t really even say what team they are trying to create. Youth worlds are next year, so why are any 2007 birth years involved? They get an experience. Good for them as long as they realize it. Many of the other international tournaments are like ODP are glorified scrimmages.
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I guess they should be more transparent with the California Blue teams in the sense that all of those kids think they can have a great weekend and make NTSC. In reality, almost no players get chosen from the Blue teams no matter what happens.
Also, one would think if you won the Nick Johnson award you would make NTSC. That does not seem to be the case which is odd considering those players exemplify what USA Water Polo is allegedly looking for.
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