# New Rules Affecting Roster Sizes and Athletic Scholarships
**URL:** https://waterpoloexchange.com/t/new-rules-affecting-roster-sizes-and-athletic-scholarships/192
**Category:** College - Mens
**Created:** [July 31, 2024, 6:46pm UTC](https://waterpoloexchange.com/t/new-rules-affecting-roster-sizes-and-athletic-scholarships/192 "2024-07-31T18:46:48Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 2
### Author:  [@WaterPoloTrevor](https://waterpoloexchange.com/u/WaterPoloTrevor)
#### Post date: [August 25, 2024, 3:44pm UTC](https://waterpoloexchange.com/t/new-rules-affecting-roster-sizes-and-athletic-scholarships/192/21 "2024-08-25T15:44:10Z")
Whether the program is endowed is important (I know Fordham has one and I think a couple of the other Eastern schools on that list have one also).
The endowment is important but also the level of alumni support year in and year out is as well. Often times an athletic department can spend less because alumni help defray any cost. For example, Fordham alums raised $200k across the December and March giving days to help fund team expenses/scholarships.
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### Author:  [@sacareawaterpolofan](https://waterpoloexchange.com/u/sacareawaterpolofan)
#### Post date: [August 25, 2024, 3:57pm UTC](https://waterpoloexchange.com/t/new-rules-affecting-roster-sizes-and-athletic-scholarships/192/22 "2024-08-25T15:57:00Z")
re: endowment, John Abdou stressed for programs to get in front of it/be proactive, make themselves as independently financial viable asap before the AD comes to your door to discuss cutting the budget. also besides the financial piece… campus involvement (sit on academic committees, student life). make yourself a vital part of the overall college community.
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### Author:  [@rolled1](https://waterpoloexchange.com/u/rolled1)
#### Post date: [August 25, 2024, 4:30pm UTC](https://waterpoloexchange.com/t/new-rules-affecting-roster-sizes-and-athletic-scholarships/192/23 "2024-08-25T16:30:30Z")
I am assuming the cost of the program included scholarships. So an LMU or Pepperdine scholarship would be expensed at 90-94K vs UCSB or UCLA at say 40-50K. Does adding one extra student to play water polo actually cost the school 90K? Brown is an interesting number, no scholarships but 200K more than the other east coast ivy and Fordham.
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### Author:  [@Gibson](https://waterpoloexchange.com/u/Gibson)
#### Post date: [August 27, 2024, 12:37am UTC](https://waterpoloexchange.com/t/new-rules-affecting-roster-sizes-and-athletic-scholarships/192/24 "2024-08-27T00:37:39Z")
> [@rolled1](#):
>
> Looking at most rosters with 4-5 international players i may be incorrectly assuming that most of those gusy are sucking up the 4.5 scholarships per team. I personally feel that those teams who get to increase their scholarships to say 8-9 will end up with 8-10 international players and leave domestic players to fight for 14 roster spots vs 20-24 right now.
I think this is good logic and a real concern for US water polo. I know many coaches use their scholarship money for international players. If they have more money to spend on internationals, then that’s where it will go. A 21 year old Croatian can be a better water polo investment for a coach than an 18 year old American.
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### Author:  [@polofan](https://waterpoloexchange.com/u/polofan)
#### Post date: [August 27, 2024, 3:54am UTC](https://waterpoloexchange.com/t/new-rules-affecting-roster-sizes-and-athletic-scholarships/192/25 "2024-08-27T03:54:20Z")
Can’t today internationals also get needs-based scholarships? May be more common in privates than publics and with grad students but I am not sure there is a rule against it. Not picking on anyone but, take SJSU for example. 10 kids last I checked who are from Eastern Europe. I cant imagine a full boat cost with conversion and cost of living differences there.
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### Author:  [@jeff](https://waterpoloexchange.com/u/jeff)
#### Post date: [August 27, 2024, 2:17pm UTC](https://waterpoloexchange.com/t/new-rules-affecting-roster-sizes-and-athletic-scholarships/192/26 "2024-08-27T14:17:56Z")
Here is a short article from [swimswam.com](http://swimswam.com) noting Ohio State’s response to the new rules:
[Ohio St. AD Expects Roster Cuts, Some Sports to ‘Act Like a Club Sport’ after House Settlement (swimswam.com)](https://swimswam.com/ohio-state-ad-expects-roster-cuts-some-sports-to-act-like-a-club-sport-in-compliance-with-house-v-ncaa-rulings/#:~:text=While%20Bjork%20affirmed%20the%20University%27s,the%20court%20decision%27s%20roster%20limits.)
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### Author:  [@GrowTheGame](https://waterpoloexchange.com/u/GrowTheGame)
#### Post date: [August 27, 2024, 3:03pm UTC](https://waterpoloexchange.com/t/new-rules-affecting-roster-sizes-and-athletic-scholarships/192/27 "2024-08-27T15:03:42Z")
Football and basketball are increasing scholarships. A few women’s sports (hopefully women’s polo!) will have to increase to keep pace, putting downward pressure on men’s Olympic sports. This is a good article because OH State, spending close to 20 million on its NIL football, clearly communicates that when football profits drastically shrink, the entire AD has to make major cuts.
Niche sports like polo will have to dramatically increase alumni funding to ensure survival when ADs across the country examine their spreadsheets over the next few years. The new USA WP CEO has a role to play in lobbying.
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### Author:  [@rolled1](https://waterpoloexchange.com/u/rolled1)
#### Post date: [August 27, 2024, 3:47pm UTC](https://waterpoloexchange.com/t/new-rules-affecting-roster-sizes-and-athletic-scholarships/192/28 "2024-08-27T15:47:04Z")
Did I read that right? This law suit that will hurt all Olympic sports was brought on by a swimmer? That is sad.
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### Author:  [@sacareawaterpolofan](https://waterpoloexchange.com/u/sacareawaterpolofan)
#### Post date: [August 27, 2024, 4:59pm UTC](https://waterpoloexchange.com/t/new-rules-affecting-roster-sizes-and-athletic-scholarships/192/29 "2024-08-27T16:59:41Z")
omg. just read that. the irony…
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### Author:  [@sacareawaterpolofan](https://waterpoloexchange.com/u/sacareawaterpolofan)
#### Post date: [August 27, 2024, 5:02pm UTC](https://waterpoloexchange.com/t/new-rules-affecting-roster-sizes-and-athletic-scholarships/192/30 "2024-08-27T17:02:12Z")
So D1 programs could need to fundraise/endow anywhere from $300,000 to $1,300,000 annually.
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### Author:  [@H20Polo](https://waterpoloexchange.com/u/H20Polo)
#### Post date: [August 27, 2024, 7:22pm UTC](https://waterpoloexchange.com/t/new-rules-affecting-roster-sizes-and-athletic-scholarships/192/31 "2024-08-27T19:22:19Z")
I think the difference is that the Harvard HC position is endowed so it doesn’t come under the expense line. Scholarships would also be separate from these expenses. The College Factual data is from 2021-2022 school year.
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### Author:  [@homesteadjoe](https://waterpoloexchange.com/u/homesteadjoe)
#### Post date: [August 29, 2024, 9:50pm UTC](https://waterpoloexchange.com/t/new-rules-affecting-roster-sizes-and-athletic-scholarships/192/33 "2024-08-29T21:50:55Z")
Do any of the recent NCAA rule changes affect the athletic programs at the Naval Academy and the Air Force Academy? From what I have read, students at the service academies are not allowed to do NIL. Every student has tuition covered and receives some stipend. Service Academies are also exempt from Title 9.
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### Author:  [@AmateurDad](https://waterpoloexchange.com/u/AmateurDad)
#### Post date: [August 30, 2024, 12:02am UTC](https://waterpoloexchange.com/t/new-rules-affecting-roster-sizes-and-athletic-scholarships/192/34 "2024-08-30T00:02:22Z")
Here is a link to an article that discusses potential roadblocks to this settlement.
House Settlement Faces New Onslaught of Athlete Challenges
Six crew athletes from different schools filed an objection to the settlement and an opposition to the motion for preliminary settlement approval. Also discusses briefs filed by two other parties.
[https://www.sportico.com/law/analysis/2024/house-ncaa-settlement-athlete-objections-1234793035/](https://www.sportico.com/law/analysis/2024/house-ncaa-settlement-athlete-objections-1234793035/)
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### Author:  [@GrowTheGame](https://waterpoloexchange.com/u/GrowTheGame)
#### Post date: [August 30, 2024, 3:55pm UTC](https://waterpoloexchange.com/t/new-rules-affecting-roster-sizes-and-athletic-scholarships/192/35 "2024-08-30T15:55:31Z")
Good article above that shows the only certainty is topline cost increase for the Olympic sports, whether because of lack of football subsidization or increased athlete benefits. Even the “settlement” requires schools to pay big $, whether or not they have top football or basketball teams. Not to mention the huge medical costs for two years after graduation. All Olympic sports will have to rally to ensure healthy ecosystems. D3 should remain healthy. Those sports with few Division 1 programs, like men’s gymnastics (11 programs), are at risk. If they lose two or three, athletic directors are bound to flag the rest.
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### Author:  [@Bestcoast](https://waterpoloexchange.com/u/Bestcoast)
#### Post date: [September 4, 2024, 1:55pm UTC](https://waterpoloexchange.com/t/new-rules-affecting-roster-sizes-and-athletic-scholarships/192/36 "2024-09-04T13:55:57Z")
2 ADs have come out with more comments on how the House settlement might change things. While not water polo schools, they have plenty of Olympic sports they support:
TCU AD
> **[TCU AD Discusses Shifting NCAA Landscape and “Irony” of Settlement In House Case](https://swimswam.com/tcu-ad-discusses-shifting-ncaa-landscape-and-irony-of-settlement-in-house-case/)**
>
> Athletic Directors are opening up about what the changes in the NCAA mean for sports programs; TCU AD calls House v. NCAA settlement "ironic". Athletic Directors are opening up about what the changes in the NCAA mean for sports programs; TCU AD calls...
Ohio State AD
> **[Ohio State AD Bjork talks paying NCAA athletes, maintaining 36 teams with...](https://www.dispatch.com/story/news/education/2024/08/21/ohio-state-ad-ross-bjork-nil-d1-sports-teams-big-ten/74893167007/)**
>
> Ohio State Athletic Director Ross Bjork spoke with the board of trustees for the first time at a new committee meeting.
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### Author:  [@Gibson](https://waterpoloexchange.com/u/Gibson)
#### Post date: [October 8, 2024, 7:19pm UTC](https://waterpoloexchange.com/t/new-rules-affecting-roster-sizes-and-athletic-scholarships/192/37 "2024-10-08T19:19:57Z")
I’ve heard that redshirts will count against the roster limit. That means that there is no roster benefit to redshirting and again will make older players more attractive investments.
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### Author:  [@rolled1](https://waterpoloexchange.com/u/rolled1)
#### Post date: [October 8, 2024, 8:49pm UTC](https://waterpoloexchange.com/t/new-rules-affecting-roster-sizes-and-athletic-scholarships/192/38 "2024-10-08T20:49:22Z")
I have also heard that D1 teams can operate as a club in the off season. So in my mind, you can bring kids who would have redshirted but you did not have room for them (but they are enrolled in your school ) into your club season in January, and then be rostered as a first year player their sophomore year. Thus another way to develop players who are not ready to go freshman year without taking a roster spot. You are basically recruited as a second year walk on, just need good grades… Probably missing some things just thinking out loud…
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### Author:  [@netminder](https://waterpoloexchange.com/u/netminder)
#### Post date: [October 8, 2024, 11:20pm UTC](https://waterpoloexchange.com/t/new-rules-affecting-roster-sizes-and-athletic-scholarships/192/39 "2024-10-08T23:20:21Z")
D1 teams can and likely will operate as a club during offseason to evade NCAA 8 hour and 20 hour practice limits. Your thoughts about second year walk ons is illuminating and will likely happen. Probably could apply to transfers and grad students as well.
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### Author:  [@EYG](https://waterpoloexchange.com/u/EYG)
#### Post date: [October 8, 2024, 11:49pm UTC](https://waterpoloexchange.com/t/new-rules-affecting-roster-sizes-and-athletic-scholarships/192/40 "2024-10-08T23:49:28Z")
Wouldn’t the “second year walk on” have 4 polo season of eligibility?
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### Author:  [@rolled1](https://waterpoloexchange.com/u/rolled1)
#### Post date: [October 9, 2024, 5:01pm UTC](https://waterpoloexchange.com/t/new-rules-affecting-roster-sizes-and-athletic-scholarships/192/41 "2024-10-09T17:01:26Z")
I believe they would have 4 years but not sure exactly, if they practice with the club the second half of the year I don’t think that would count towards eligibility. So their first year of 4 would be their sophomore year. I am just guessing an AD or coach should know.
That being said, there are not that many teams with giant rosters. lots of unranked teams have 16-18 so if a kid really wants to play in college they will have to start studying roster sizes and talk to schools that they have better odds with. After all of these 5th year and grad students move on I think the game will get better. I did some quick math and not counting the IVY’s in the top 18 D1 Schools (left out Navy and AF as well) there are potentially 53 spots on 15 teams. Some like UCSB and UC Davis have to cut deep to bring anyone new in as they are one over before bringing in a new class.
| School | 2024 roster size | sr/grads | 2025 open spots |
| --- | --- | --- | --- |
| UCLA | 28 | 5 | 1 |
| USC | 26 | 7 | 5 |
| Stanford | 25 | 6 | 5 |
| Pep | 28 | 6 | 2 |
| UOP | 36 | 17 | 5 |
| UCI | 27 | 7 | 4 |
| Fordham | 25 | 10 | 9 |
| CAL | 32 | 9 | 1 |
| Princeton | 27 | 10 | N/A |
| Long B | 28 | 7 | 3 |
| SJ state | 25 | 7 | 6 |
| UCSB | 28 | 3 | -1 |
| UCSD | 29 | 9 | 4 |
| Harvard | 17 | 4 | N/A |
| Santa CL | 27 | 4 | 1 |
| LMU | 23 | 4 | 5 |
| UC Davis | 29 | 4 | -1 |
| Brown | 20 | 2 | N/A |
| CBU | 24 | 4 | 4 |
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