So your definition of parity is someone other than the big 4 winning the championship? NCAA winning UCLA went to OT with Princeton and Davis in 24 ( one example of many), many of these top 4 teams can be beaten on a given day. Cal is an example this year, didnt make NCAA’s while Fordham and LBSU did. My view of improving parity is improved competitiveness which is what I am seeing and once again IMHO.
Not sure we need to match other sports, i do thnk depth of talent and roster are key with the intensity of the college game. The transfer portal is likely the biggest enemy of parity in my mind, but not driven by coaches. We will see how things progress, but I remember watching many games this year with the big 4 vs. others and not knowing who would win till late in the second half or 4th quarter. Learning how to win is hard to do unless you expereince it.
I think the definition of parity that we are all using is along the lines of, “being equal in terms of status.” What’s your definition of parity? Using this definition there are very clearly only 4 teams with the status of elite and those are the big four.
I’m struggling to understand how you can equate a few regular season overtime losses to years and years of dominating the regular and postseason.
Do a quick review of the big 4’s record book and look at their head to head victories vs other colleges. Show me a big 4 school that has a winning percentage of less than 80% vs any school other than another big 4 school. I’d be curious to hear about what you find. My guess is the only non big 4 school that has a winning percentage over 20% vs a big 4 school is UC Irvine and that’s because they were great 30+ years ago.
So the big 4 schools routinely beat everyone else and have won every championship since 1997.
Edit: as of the time UCLA’s 2024 media guide went out UCLA was 20-0 vs Davis and 17-0 vs Princeton. So after the 2024 season they’re 21-0 vs Davis and 19-0 vs Princeton.
So, yes, I think teams need to start regularly competing (meaning winning some games) vs big 4 schools in the regular and postseason before we can have legitimate talks of parity expanding in collegiate water polo
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Cal is a big four team and was regularly beat this year, no?
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They also just won 3 NCAA championships in a row and none of the non-big four teams that beat them came close to winning a championship.
And following up Cal’s 3peat I think will be a UCLA 4 peat. I’d love to see a non big-four school win it all and consistently challenge the status quo. I just don’t see that happening in the next 3 years
Its so hard to win consitently at that level, and what Cal did was super special. I think making calls like 4 peats for UCLA (which i am a huge fan of) is premature, but maybe where your concern really is. I cant be convinced that because a big four school wins the tournament often, the competitiveness up and down the division is not real and that each game doesnt an opportunity for an upset. Competitive games create parity for me as an ex player. I will leave this topic here for me.
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Hoping for a rare upset or an occasional close game once in a while is not parity. The same four teams vying for a championship every single year with the Cinderella story once in a blue moon is not parity. Season’s like Fordham had last year or UOP several years ago are rare. A team like LBSU taking SC into overtime every 2 or 3 is fun to watch and it’s big news in the sport every time it happens because it’s rare. A number 11 ranked team giving a number four ranked team a run for their money is expected in most sports, in college water polo it’s an anomaly.
Coming into a season with a wide open field for the title instead of accurately being able to choose between the same four teams every year is parity.
Water polo hasn’t had anything close to parity since the 80’s.
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Imagine how much more top loaded it would be if the “other schools” didn’t have foreigners. There is only so much US talent in every class and almost all of them either go to, or want to go to the Big 4 plus Princeton and Harvard. I don’t see that ever changing.
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I agree with you Rb on the foreigner aspect but where I disagree is the limited American talent.
I would argue that the recruiting system in this country is completely broken, so much talent gets overlooked year after year. Most college coaches operate by word of mouth from their coaching network and follow ODP national team selections. Often times the 8th best guy on a Newport or JSerra is recruited over the best players at other places. This is a mistake because these teams are ultimately the best because they play as a team better than others.
Also, out of state athletes especially those with extreme athletic gifts such as size, speed, throwing ability, and strength are left out in the cold because they can’t contribute immediately at the collegiate level. I would argue that if college coaches focused on developing these types of players they would see incredible improvement over 5 years of college (redshirt assumed).
This then leads to coaches turning to foreign talent which is often much more polished and ready to compete immediately. The job of college coaches is to win games so I understand this, I am simply making the point that recruiting in this country for this sport is a massive problem. Basketball, football, and baseball also have independent sources who evaluate and rank the recruits which we don’t currently have for water polo.
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I can’t agree more with this take
Retired guy. Is spot on.
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It goes both ways though. Athletes need to be open minded to other schools. James Graham has plenty of room for developmental players, and I’m sure he’d love to take as many as he can. So if you really want to play, give UOP a call.
When you have high school coaches, who also represent USAWP at the highest levels, importing foreign players, it’s an indication that the system is very broken.
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Unfortunately in more recent years I personally know several American players who get ghosted from UOP. Their best team in 2013 had several significant American contributors but the recent teams have really lacked this presence. Hence I have been more critical in recent years of their chance to win.
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While I agree with the sentiment of this take, I can only assume from his name that this comes from someone who has been around the game for a long time. Paragraph 2, while reasonable and noble, doesn’t work in the game of 2025 and beyond. With the 24 player roster, coaches at the top can’t take the time to develop players (certainly no flyers) and I doubt we will see many redshirts at all, unless for injuries. Players from smaller schools and out of California suffer from either a real or perceived lack of high level coaching and certainly consistent, high level competition and therefor have a difficult time breaking through the clutter of what is here and in front of their eyes.
I think that parity is limited now primarily because of the transfer portal. It leaves the mid-tier teams in the role of attracting those same players you’re thinking of, developing those younger players who just needed time to season only to lose those players via the portal just when they could make the team competitive with the big boys.
Won’t happen, but having a player sit for a year when transferring (again) would go along way to getting parity.
I never said or intimated I “hoped” for a rare upset I like to see competitive games and most are. Complaining about the top 4, which this year was the top 3, is complaining.
Exactly, they say your kid is “their top priority” and they ghost you on confirmed calls, not a good look. This happened to my kid 2x.
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They have to say that. No coach is going to recruit a player by saying “you’re my fallback”.
Honest ones will
“We have four players ahead of you but there’s a good chance at least one will not work out and in that case we think you could be very accretive to our program”
Totally standard in the corporate world. But for some reason adult coaches dealing with child players, often having insisted parents remain uninvolved, have no problem lying through their teeth
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